Evidence for God from Science

John 14:16-21
16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 18 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 [c]After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. 20 In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

I guess Helper is better than word written directly by Jesus.

No point made, just wondering why re topic, and mentioning a couple of times when Christ wrote things down. Re idols - Yes, some people prefer idols, as if there were not enough.

It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

Probably a good topic for a new thread, how does something become an idol and what is idol worship.

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

''Something Sacred'' is not an idol. (Look up the definition of sacred and idol on your own.) The Bible itself isn't an idol; it is just a collection of books. You could hold a Bible burning party and only idiots would attend...along with the idiot who organized it. But if you look at Islam, they have made the Koran into a veritable idol. Burn a copy of the Koran, or desecrate it in any way, and you are in major trouble. And very few would attend your Koran-burning because even among the secular, the Koran is respected.

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

''Something Sacred'' is not an idol. (Look up the definition of sacred and idol on your own.) The Bible itself isn't an idol; it is just a collection of books. You could hold a Bible burning party and only idiots would attend...along with the idiot who organized it. But if you look at Islam, they have made the Koran into a veritable idol. Burn a copy of the Koran, or desecrate it in any way, and you are in major trouble. And very few would attend your Koran-burning because even among the secular, the Koran is respected.

FL

Nice Illustration FL, I like it.

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

''Something Sacred'' is not an idol. (Look up the definition of sacred and idol on your own.) The Bible itself isn't an idol;

I know the difference. There has been some who have responded that if Jesus wrote the bible, some would make it an idol. Do you believe this to be the case? I mean; if people have refrained from making the burial cloth of Jesus an idol; something that actually touched his body, do you believe they would make a modern made book that simply contains his words an idol?

Ken

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

''Something Sacred'' is not an idol. (Look up the definition of sacred and idol on your own.) The Bible itself isn't an idol; it is just a collection of books. You could hold a Bible burning party and only idiots would attend...along with the idiot who organized it. But if you look at Islam, they have made the Koran into a veritable idol. Burn a copy of the Koran, or desecrate it in any way, and you are in major trouble. And very few would attend your Koran-burning because even among the secular, the Koran is respected.

FL

I know this is off topic, but I am reminded of a comedy/magician duo “Penn & Teller” They had a rather popular act approx 20 years ago; they were also atheists who were rather critical of religions.
One day Penn (the one who speaks) addressed why they never criticize Islam even though they often criticize Christianity; and his reply was if he criticized Islam he would fear for his life. He was saying this as if this were supposed to be a compliment to Christianity; that he could criticize them knowing there would be no repercussions. I immediately lost all respect for them I call them cowards because they are rewarding bad behavior, and are hostile towards good. The way I see it, if you are too much of a coward to criticize all religions, don’t criticize any of them at all.

They don’t respect Islam, they don’t respect the Koran; they fear those who respect Islam and the Koran. I have no respect for Penn and Teller anymore, I no longer watch their shows, because I don’t like those who reward bad behavior, even if they do it out of fear.

Anyway, excuse my rant; I know it was off subject, but it’s just something that came to mind.

Ken

Kenny wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

''Something Sacred'' is not an idol. (Look up the definition of sacred and idol on your own.) The Bible itself isn't an idol;

I know the difference. There has been some who have responded that if Jesus wrote the bible, some would make it an idol. Do you believe this to be the case? I mean; if people have refrained from making the burial cloth of Jesus an idol; something that actually touched his body, do you believe they would make a modern made book that simply contains his words an idol?

Ken

Ken we are just playing guessing games here, no one really knows the answer why Jesus never wrote anything down himself, there could be one reason or there could be thousands of reasons why he didn't, the only one that really knows is Jesus himself, the only thing we can do is take a stab in the dark.

Maybe he just didn't have a pen on him.

What we do have however is an extremely accurate historical record of the life and teachings of Jesus, now that is amazing in and of itself.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

Kenny wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kenny wrote:It seems a number of people say if Jesus wrote the bible, mankind would make those actual words of Jesus an "idol". How far do you have to take it for it to be considered an idol? example; if someone considers something "sacred" like the current bible, the Shroud of Turin, the Holy Lands, etc. if someone considered those things sacred, would that constitute making it an idol?

Ken

''Something Sacred'' is not an idol. (Look up the definition of sacred and idol on your own.) The Bible itself isn't an idol;

I know the difference. There has been some who have responded that if Jesus wrote the bible, some would make it an idol. Do you believe this to be the case? I mean; if people have refrained from making the burial cloth of Jesus an idol; something that actually touched his body, do you believe they would make a modern made book that simply contains his words an idol?

Ken

Ken we are just playing guessing games here, no one really knows the answer why Jesus never wrote anything down himself, there could be one reason or there could be thousands of reasons why he didn't, the only one that really knows is Jesus himself, the only thing we can do is take a stab in the dark.

Maybe he just didn't have a pen on him.

What we do have however is an extremely accurate historical record of the life and teachings of Jesus, now that is amazing in and of itself.

Thank-you for such a candid answer. IMO the best answer thus far.

Ken

An idol is when you love your wedding cake more than the one you are marrying !

Starhunter wrote:An idol is when you love your wedding cake more than the one you are marrying !

Excellent point! Love the analogy.

Ken

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2014 6:26 pm

neo-x wrote:

Kenny wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:So you want God to take away the gift of free will? Because even if God wrote it himself we are still able to change it. Seriously how much simpler do you want it, Jesus said love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love others like you love yourself. There's not much to understand, it's pretty simple it didn't even need to be written down.

Mohammad wrote the Koran, nobody changed it; what makes you think someone would change the Bible if Jesus wrote it? And there is a lot more to the bible than love God and love others.

Ken

Kenny, just to get your facts straight, M didn't write the koran, his followers did. After M died, Abu Bakar the first caliph ordered invasions on neighboring lands as to collect every single copy of the koran, as there were many versions of it. They had them burnt and then with the followers of M who were living and who had saw M during his life. They got them together and then verified the Koran again, where two followers didn't agree, that portion was cast out and where two or more agreed that they had heard M saying such was kept and that is how the whole book was tailored.

You’re right! A quick Google search


http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/338/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

confirms much of that you said is true. Much of what I learned about Islam came from a Muslim friend of mine who apparently knows less about the Koran than you do. Thanks for clearing that up for me

Ken

How were the Quran ’s verses and chapters arranged?
read here on whyislam.org
https://www.whyislam.org/on-faith/arran ... the-quran/
a complete history;
https://www.minhaj.org/english/tid/2929 ... Quran.html

The Holy Spirit inspired the whole bible. Just like the prophets it’s all God I’m the doing. The body is just used for the mouth or hands in this case.

mrtzur2015 wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 8:14 am The Holy Spirit inspired the whole bible. Just like the prophets it’s all God I’m the doing. The body is just used for the mouth or hands in this case.

To what degree and exactly what it means that the HS inspired the writers of the various books, poems, songs and letters that make up the bible, is hotly contested.