Evidence for God from Science

Starhunter wrote:

Mazzy wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Well if God requested you to protect your family by killing the pedophile, which He would have expected of you in the wilderness without our civil authorities, then you must be subject to powers outside of your physical world?

Your comment is nonsensical. If you want to have a discussion with me please be sensible.

God said nothing about pedophiles in or out of the wilderness so then you must be subject to your own delusions.

I CHOSE NOT TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU ANY FURTHER ON THIS FORUM

OK, I tried to be gracious and show you some physics that can support your view, where we could agree. However, you prefer to run with views that take theism into the realm of rhetoric.

Here is a SUMMARY of my posts in this thread that may help some inquirers.

Creation is a non violent allowance and sublimation of power

Matter is supported by other forces unseen

The universe has a strong background of energy

The Bible talks about these powers

How God creates by Christ

The modern world has no idea of these Biblical concepts as did the ancients

Creation is subject to higher powers, with graduations from the higher powers to the lower

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence and yet it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

PS If you are studying from versions of the Bible other than the Authorized version or the (old) King James, you will not pick up what it says about these mysteries, because they have been deleted or mistranslated to suit the modern man.

Starhunter,

Your profile says you're not a Christian. Please give us some background on your religious beliefs, so we can understand where you're coming from.

RickD wrote:Starhunter,

Your profile says you're not a Christian. Please give us some background on your religious beliefs, so we can understand where you're coming from.

The name Christian originally came from outsiders naming them that.

So far I have been addressed as Straw man, and labelled deluded, self righteous, judgmental and other terms that mean I have little or no intelligence and no reasoning capabilities etc

Going by that, I cannot claim the title Christian, so you can understand why I would not be proud of such a label, and why i don't want any pigeon hole prepared for me.

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:Starhunter,

Your profile says you're not a Christian. Please give us some background on your religious beliefs, so we can understand where you're coming from.

The name Christian originally came from outsiders naming them that.

So far I have been addressed as Straw man, and labelled deluded, self righteous, judgmental and other terms that mean I have little or no intelligence and no reasoning capabilities etc

Going by that, I cannot claim the title Christian, so you can understand why I would not be proud of such a label, and why i don't want any pigeon hole prepared for me.

Alrighty then!
I said your statement was a straw man, not you.

"Christian", in its simplest meaning, just means a follower of Jesus Christ.

Either you are or you aren't. There's no pigeon holing involved.

Starhunter wrote:Here is a SUMMARY of my posts in this thread that may help some inquirers.

Creation is a non violent allowance and sublimation of power

Matter is supported by other forces unseen

The universe has a strong background of energy

The Bible talks about these powers

How God creates by Christ

The modern world has no idea of these Biblical concepts as did the ancients

Creation is subject to higher powers, with graduations from the higher powers to the lower

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence and yet it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

PS If you are studying from versions of the Bible other than the Authorized version or the (old) King James, you will not pick up what it says about these mysteries, because they have been deleted or mistranslated to suit the modern man.

Starhunter, you just don't get that most of us think the above and your OP is incoherent nonsense. You absolutely refuse to talk science just like you refuse to talk with me.

I wish someone would start a similar thread topic so the rest of us could have a serious discussion. Is that allowed?

Rick wants to know your particular background because you are so far out in orbit, that it is diificult, or near impossible to understand you.

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:Starhunter,

Your profile says you're not a Christian. Please give us some background on your religious beliefs, so we can understand where you're coming from.

The name Christian originally came from outsiders naming them that.

So far I have been addressed as Straw man, and labelled deluded, self righteous, judgmental and other terms that mean I have little or no intelligence and no reasoning capabilities etc

Going by that, I cannot claim the title Christian, so you can understand why I would not be proud of such a label, and why i don't want any pigeon hole prepared for me.

Alrighty then!
I said your statement was a straw man, not you.

"Christian", in its simplest meaning, just means a follower of Jesus Christ.

Either you are or you aren't. There's no pigeon holing involved.

Since I've been on here I have bent over backwards trying to get Starhunter to talk science on the thread topic. He refuses to talk intelligently with such gusto that when exposed for posting incoherent comments that make no sense he throws a tanty and refuses to talk.

I am interested in the topic and have made many comments in relation to it. I'd like someone to start a similar thread or I'll see if I can start one.

Here is a SUMMARY of my posts in this thread that may help some inquirers.

Creation is a non violent allowance and sublimation of power

Matter is supported by other forces unseen

The universe has a strong background of energy

The Bible talks about these powers

How God creates by Christ

The modern world has no idea of these Biblical concepts as did the ancients

Creation is subject to higher powers, with graduations from the higher powers to the lower

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence and yet it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

PS If you are studying from versions of the Bible other than the Authorized version or the (old) King James, you will not pick up what it says about these mysteries, because they have been deleted or mistranslated to suit the modern man

Honestly I'm understanding a lot of what Starhunter is saying. He's speaking from a metaphysical level and from his search in discerning old truths. As far as 'the ancients' lot is concerned, a lot holds up when studying the remnants of ancient civilizations. For example, the ancient Egyptians harnessed electricity. Forget about the stone blocks, there's a diverse amount of evidence supporting a culture that was very technologically advanced from a 'nature science' perspective, I'll call it. They were studying nature, understood relationships we do not and were able to obiviously accomplish great feats because of it. I can reconcile a good amount of what he says to be reasonable and rational. I don't agree with everything said but I'm not addressing everything.

Regardless, I would like to know how Starhunter has obtained this information. And would like to know more about it.

I do agree that there is a LOT that can be discerned by first understanding accurate metaphysical principles alone. As everything we comprehend is based off this.

I don't know if I should start another thread, talk to Starhunter privately, or continue here. But he should not be written off yet. Although he does need to start being a little bit more transparent. If you are going to give us knowledge, there needs to be an explainable foundation for it (even if it's just pure reason itself, explained and debated [as true debate will help others discern truth and debate ends when confusion is cleared]), otherwise you set yourself as the authority of this wisdom and not God. This is what I think members here are having an issue with?

As far as your issue with being called Christian. This is how you identify a believer in Jesus Christ. Just because the name originated as slandar by those forming the Church, doesn't mean you should reject it, if you are a believer in Christ. But I understand the hesitation, as a lot of colors of Christianity don't portray Christianity.

Mallz wrote:

Here is a SUMMARY of my posts in this thread that may help some inquirers.

Creation is a non violent allowance and sublimation of power

Matter is supported by other forces unseen

The universe has a strong background of energy

The Bible talks about these powers

How God creates by Christ

The modern world has no idea of these Biblical concepts as did the ancients

Creation is subject to higher powers, with graduations from the higher powers to the lower

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence and yet it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

PS If you are studying from versions of the Bible other than the Authorized version or the (old) King James, you will not pick up what it says about these mysteries, because they have been deleted or mistranslated to suit the modern man

Honestly I'm understanding a lot of what Starhunter is saying. He's speaking from a metaphysical level and from his search in discerning old truths. As far as 'the ancients' lot is concerned, a lot holds up when studying the remnants of ancient civilizations. For example, the ancient Egyptians harnessed electricity. Forget about the stone blocks, there's a diverse amount of evidence supporting a culture that was very technologically advanced from a 'nature science' perspective, I'll call it. They were studying nature, understood relationships we do not and were able to obiviously accomplish great feats because of it. I can reconcile a good amount of what he says to be reasonable and rational. I don't agree with everything said but I'm not addressing everything.

Regardless, I would like to know how Starhunter has obtained this information. And would like to know more about it.

I do agree that there is a LOT that can be discerned by first understanding accurate metaphysical principles alone. As everything we comprehend is based off this.

I don't know if I should start another thread, talk to Starhunter privately, or continue here. But he should not be written off yet. Although he does need to start being a little bit more transparent. If you are going to give us knowledge, there needs to be an explainable foundation for it (even if it's just pure reason itself, explained and debated [as true debate will help others discern truth and debate ends when confusion is cleared]), otherwise you set yourself as the authority of this wisdom and not God. This is what I think members here are having an issue with?

As far as your issue with being called Christian. This is how you identify a believer in Jesus Christ. Just because the name originated as slandar by those forming the Church, doesn't mean you should reject it, if you are a believer in Christ. But I understand the hesitation, as a lot of colors of Christianity don't portray Christianity.

I have asked Starhunter to offer some basis for his post. For example what does this mean?

"Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence and yet it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating"

Physics and observation say matter is created by energy. Matter is not created through the principles of freedom. In fact that does not even make any sense. I suggest there is much observed science that informs the thread topic. Starhunter will have no part in it nor can he refute the science I have offered in acknowledgement of how God may have created.

What ancients? ie Adam and Eve being intellectually superior or Chariots of the Gods.

Starhunter does not appear able to answer such simple and clarifying question. Someone indicated that SH does not identify as a Christian yet comments on how God created through Christ.

I think you should continue here if you are actually interested in what SH has to say. I am not, but I do like the thread topic.

I would like to start a thread of a similar nature but I can't see how to do it.

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence..

I can't reconcile this. SH would need to elaborate on 'freedom and independence'. I'm assuming there is more to this, as his choice of terms (as you so stated) makes the statement incomprehensible.

..and yet [matter] it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

That I agree with, as the Word being the unmoving mover.

Ancients, as I define anyway, encompasses ancient civilizations of wonder. Wonder as in leaving remnants behind showing a sophisticated culture that could accomplish feats humanity currentlyl can't, or lost the ability to for a vast period of time.

I think I will continue with questions for SH here, but forgive me for not asking now or having more elaborate/inclusive posts as I'm at work which usually only allows a 'read and respond' mode.

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:Starhunter,

Your profile says you're not a Christian. Please give us some background on your religious beliefs, so we can understand where you're coming from.

The name Christian originally came from outsiders naming them that.

So far I have been addressed as Straw man, and labelled deluded, self righteous, judgmental and other terms that mean I have little or no intelligence and no reasoning capabilities etc

Going by that, I cannot claim the title Christian, so you can understand why I would not be proud of such a label, and why i don't want any pigeon hole prepared for me.

Alrighty then!
I said your statement was a straw man, not you.

"Christian", in its simplest meaning, just means a follower of Jesus Christ.

Either you are or you aren't. There's no pigeon holing involved.

I don't even know what Strawman is, so took it the wrong way.

You should be able to tell all about me from what I post. I have never read anyone's profile because when I sit down to a meal someone made, I don't demand an ingredients list or cooking methods before I eat.

Mallz wrote:

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence..

I can't reconcile this. SH would need to elaborate on 'freedom and independence'. I'm assuming there is more to this, as his choice of terms (as you so stated) makes the statement incomprehensible.

..and yet [matter] it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

That I agree with, as the Word being the unmoving mover.

Ancients, as I define anyway, encompasses ancient civilizations of wonder. Wonder as in leaving remnants behind showing a sophisticated culture that could accomplish feats humanity currentlyl can't, or lost the ability to for a vast period of time.

I think I will continue with questions for SH here, but forgive me for not asking now or having more elaborate/inclusive posts as I'm at work which usually only allows a 'read and respond' mode.

There you go Mallz. Starhunter came back on here after your post and still has nothing of substance to say. I seriously believe he is just spamming and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Mallz wrote:

Here is a SUMMARY of my posts in this thread that may help some inquirers.

Creation is ... or mistranslated to suit the modern man

Honestly I'm understanding a lot of what Starhunter is saying. He's speaking from a metaphysical level and from his search in discerning old truths. As far as 'the ancients' lot is concerned, a lot holds up when studying the remnants of ancient civilizations. For example, the ancient Egyptians harnessed electricity. Forget about the stone blocks, there's a diverse amount of evidence supporting a culture that was very technologically advanced from a 'nature science' perspective, I'll call it. They were studying nature, understood relationships we do not and were able to obiviously accomplish great feats because of it. I can reconcile a good amount of what he says to be reasonable and rational. I don't agree with everything said but I'm not addressing everything.

Regardless, I would like to know how Starhunter has obtained this information. And would like to know more about it.

I do agree that there is a LOT that can be discerned by first understanding accurate metaphysical principles alone. As everything we comprehend is based off this.

I don't know if I should start another thread, talk to Starhunter privately, or continue here. But he should not be written off yet. Although he does need to start being a little bit more transparent. If you are going to give us knowledge, there needs to be an explainable foundation for it (even if it's just pure reason itself, explained and debated [as true debate will help others discern truth and debate ends when confusion is cleared]), otherwise you set yourself as the authority of this wisdom and not God. This is what I think members here are having an issue with?

As far as your issue with being called Christian. This is how you identify a believer in Jesus Christ. Just because the name originated as slandar by those forming the Church, doesn't mean you should reject it, if you are a believer in Christ. But I understand the hesitation, as a lot of colors of Christianity don't portray Christianity.

Mallz,

I replied in detail twice, but for some reason the posts never appeared on the forum, giving the opportunistic critics an easy mud sling.

I have researched my interest in matter and creation, for well over 30 years. I have always examined things from the stepping stone of science, all sciences, especially astronomy, and I also studied as many esoteric writings as possible, nearly all religions, many legends, folk lore, traditions, archaeology, history, art, anything that might give me clues about the mysteries of nature. I also went into the symbols and writings of secret societies, which lead me to a door that opens to the occult. Nothing substantial was there, just smoke and mirrors. I turned in disgust.

Then about twenty years ago, I asked God to show more on creation, and having familiarized my self with the language of ancient concepts, suddenly things were plain. Too much to relate.

The concepts are extremely difficult... but simple once a few principles are installed.

By sharing some of those principles, I risked ridicule and verbal abuse, but a risk worthwhile for finding more from someone who has also seen it.

More later.

Mallz wrote:

Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence..

I can't reconcile this. SH would need to elaborate on 'freedom and independence'. I'm assuming there is more to this, as his choice of terms (as you so stated) makes the statement incomprehensible.

..and yet [matter] it is fully sustained by the Word, both for existing and operating

That I agree with, as the Word being the unmoving mover.

Ancients, as I define anyway, encompasses ancient civilizations of wonder. Wonder as in leaving remnants behind showing a sophisticated culture that could accomplish feats humanity currentlyl can't, or lost the ability to for a vast period of time.

I think I will continue with questions for SH here, but forgive me for not asking now or having more elaborate/inclusive posts as I'm at work which usually only allows a 'read and respond' mode.

"Matter is created through the principles of freedom and independence"

We are still waiting for this amazing insight to explain the above that never seems to materialize.

Some people have been conditioned to feel that freedom and independence means chaos and arrogance, consequently they cannot visualize matter existing by those principles. They feel that there are no boundaries, because somehow control is all they know.
Some even claim that God controls everything in the way the police try to control crime, once again they cannot see a safe universe without such control.

Is God a control freak? No.

Then how does the universe show such precision and order? Forget a moment the interpretation of others - that the universe began in violence and ends in violence.

The order in nature comes from the fact that God has given every facet of it a spectrum of possible behavior which goes beyond the thing's capacity to utilize. A vault of freedom.

And He has made each thing, whether animate or inanimate, with the option of working in the path of least resistance and/ or the most attraction. hence we find limited behaviors of atoms etc, which are in fact preferences in behavior.

This does not mean that atoms think and choose, that is simply the way that God made them.

There are an infinite number of ways of attraction that God has ordained, all of which can be traced back to the living Word of God, the most attractive thing for nature to respond to.

So nature is happy you might say to respond to the presence of God, and that is how it obeys His will in perfection.

Except of course with men, and the sum effects of their rebellion.