Evidence for God from Science

EssentialSacrifice wrote:Starhunter, would it be off base to divert, even momentarily from the physical description of Heaven and the actual of Heaven... that is the complete spiritual "feelings" of Heaven. Apologies if this sidetracking is disturbing, but I am more interested in what will be rather than in the how it is or is shaped or is paramatized.

This, from Maria Valtorta is a mystical experience regarding her spiritual journey with the Lord, taken to Heaven ...

Your post is not a diversion at all, but paramount in the hope we have, and even in picking up on what God has revealed about heaven.

Spiritual values as outlined by Maria, such as purity, victory, companionship and comfort, are physically demonstrated in everything God has created, seeing that He is Love, so then love is to be our eyes and ears, when we think of heaven, not just it's dimensions, but it's privileges in companionship with God, the angels and the saints.

I am sure you are familiar with I Corinthians 2:9-12, how that God reveals things through the Spirit, but never apart from spiritual values.

This aspect of learning about heaven that you have introduced, is even greater and more important than knowing all the physical dimensions.
From that view alone, we could talk about the implications of living there, aiming to have "our conversation" (or life interests) as the Apostle calls it - in the contexts of a better way to live - here as well.

We know that our affections and hopes as Christians are strengthened when we keep earth in the perspective of heaven, and what God is preparing us for by removing the rough parts of our character through tests.

dfnj wrote:
I think when we die we are so enamored in heavenly bliss looking into the face of God we are no longer capable of having any conscious thoughts and therefore no longer experience time. We are simply absorbed into the mind of God from whence we originally came.

We may not need to die, as many are taken without seeing death when Christ returns, but yes, the experience of seeing God will be a transfixing and overwhelming experience. Absolutely.

Whenever the prophets of old saw visions of heaven, angels or God, they fell as dead men, their breath seemed to leave them, and only as an angel or Christ touched them and lifted them up, they had strength to stand.

It will take time for us to get used to living within the vicinity of God, to "grow up as calves in the stall" as the Bible puts it.
You know how a calf is born, it struggles to stand, but within a short time it can stand.
Heaven is a totally new life, a very powerful existence.

I have read many descriptions of heaven from Ellen White, which has expanded the theme far beyond what I have known.
The last 4 ? chapters of the Great Controversy has some info.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25833/25 ... html#toc83

RickD wrote:
If you don't want to see, I can't force you. But I'm sure others reading this will be willing to be cautious and use discernment when reading anything from Ellen White. And actually it becomes pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of discernment, that when they read her writings, they can see where it deviates from scripture.

I owe it to God not to go by hearsay, so if you can come up with a first hand opinion - i.e, your own, of a statement she makes which is contrary to scripture, I'd be happy to consider - of course. Thanks for caring.

Starhunter wrote:

Your post is not a diversion at all, but paramount in the hope we have, and even in picking up on what God has revealed about heaven.

Spiritual values as outlined by Maria, such as purity, victory, companionship and comfort, are physically demonstrated in everything God has created, seeing that He is Love, so then love is to be our eyes and ears, when we think of heaven, not just it's dimensions, but it's privileges in companionship with God, the angels and the saints.

I am sure you are familiar with I Corinthians 2:9-12, how that God reveals things through the Spirit, but never apart from spiritual values.

This aspect of learning about heaven that you have introduced, is even greater and more important than knowing all the physical dimensions.
From that view alone, we could talk about the implications of living there, aiming to have "our conversation" (or life interests) as the Apostle calls it - in the contexts of a better way to live - here as well.

We know that our affections and hopes as Christians are strengthened when we keep earth in the perspective of heaven, and what God is preparing us for by removing the rough parts of our character through tests.

Yes my friend, this is the point of view IMO we all need, to look forward to the Promised Land without anxiety or fear. To trust in Jesus and His Word. To prevail against all our inward thoughtlessness and "see" the gates of heaven in all it's physical and spiritual dimensions. Keep all we can in mind about Heaven and think / concentrate on it's mysteries, anticipate it's great volumes of love and at our last breath reach with arms of little children to the outstretched hand of God, awaiting just for us, the place prepared for us.

Great return post Sh, and thanks.

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:
If you don't want to see, I can't force you. But I'm sure others reading this will be willing to be cautious and use discernment when reading anything from Ellen White. And actually it becomes pretty obvious to anyone with an ounce of discernment, that when they read her writings, they can see where it deviates from scripture.

I owe it to God not to go by hearsay, so if you can come up with a first hand opinion - i.e, your own, of a statement she makes which is contrary to scripture, I'd be happy to consider - of course. Thanks for caring.

I could post many links showing that EGW made prophecies that failed to come true. One failed prophecy is enough to make one a false prophet. But many? It just makes it more obvious that one is a false prophet.

So, this blog has some of her false prophecies, also showing in her own writings, where she made the prophecy.

As I said before, anyone with a little discernment can see she was a false prophet. You asked for something contrary to scripture. Here's the link:
http://thingsaboutstuff.tumblr.com/post ... est-things

I'd prefer that you just post something you have actually read from a reliable source for the publication and not from a link to a 'Ellen haters' concoction group. Just one passage, and say what you think is off.

I looked at the link and checked on the info, the first claim they made against her was false, the second false, the whole lot misconstrued. Most of it is repetition from a previous link you gave me, so it wasn't too hard to unravel.

If I wanted to know the truth about you, I would not ask those who are bent on misrepresenting you. That would be unfair.

Starhunter wrote:I'd prefer that you just post something you have actually read from a reliable source for the publication and not from a link to a 'Ellen haters' concoction group. Just one passage, and say what you think is off.

I looked at the link and checked on the info, the first claim they made against her was false, the second false, the whole lot misconstrued. Most of it is repetition from a previous link you gave me, so it wasn't too hard to unravel.

If I wanted to know the truth about you, I would not ask those who are bent on misrepresenting you. That would be unfair.

The writer of the link I gave, gives references to where he got the info. Anyone can check it out for himself. Ellen White's official website is there as well. You can read it straight from there. The guy isn't just making stuff up willy nilly.

As I said before, if you don't want to believe it, don't. But if you keep posting stuff regarding the false prophetess Ellen White, then it's my duty as a discerning Christian, and moderator of this board, to warn others who are willing to see the truth.

Do conditional prophecies count as prophecies?

Rob wrote:Do conditional prophecies count as prophecies?

What do you mean? Can you give an example?

Heh. That was me taking a casual jab at White. It seems as though SDA's tend to explain away her failed prophecies for being "conditional," or, "they would have happened if X had happened."

Rob wrote:Heh. That was me taking a casual jab at White. It seems as though SDA's tend to explain away her failed prophecies for being "conditional," or, "they would have happened if X had happened."

"They would have happened if X had happened" sounds like a way to explain away failed prophecies.

In other words, "I would've been correct if x wouldn't have happened".

My point is that a real prophet, or messenger from God, the second is what White claimed to be, would never be wrong, if she was a true prophet.

The date setting for Christ's return, seems to be a common theme among false prophets. White included.

There are a few "Ellen White hate" sites with their associated religious groups, which have prescribed Ellen White's writings as false and also misrepresented her as an individual, but I have not found anything substantial about the future world from those groups, so I can only go by the best sources which provide info on heaven as given in the Bible, and not waste any energy with bigotry.
From what I have studied over many years from the Bible and other sources - not including Ellen White, her writings have given the best overall views, especially about the chronology of heaven, and all the events as they relate to earth.

I have a whole lot MORE to say about heaven now than before, but rather than tell of my sources, I'll just use scripture quotes given by Ellen White, without mentioning her name, to avoid any conflict.

Starhunter,

Here's 2 links you may find interesting. Her name is Maria Valtorta... please read the "About the author" in second link first (upper left hand) list. First link is approvals from all over to help assure writings validity.

http://valtorta.org/church_approval_his ... tiques.asp

http://valtorta.org/the_poem__freeonlin ... goffer.asp

Tell me what you think, as I believe you and I may have that extracurricular search in common. Please don't let the Catholic thing perturb you, her denomination is of no consequence to the over all content of what is being written.

While I don`t agree with everything that Ellen White has written I did find it interesting, especially the bits about Orion.

I quite often stand out in my garden and always lok for Orion, it has always had a pull on me. I never knew why. Now, maybe, and I stress the maybe, I know.

I need to look into her writings more to form a fair opinion.

As for the links given by ES. I urge you to look into them. Valtora reached me like no one else has. Her writings are beautiful and inspired.

EssentialSacrifice wrote:Starhunter,

Here's 2 links you may find interesting. Her name is Maria Valtorta... please read the "About the author" in second link first (upper left hand) list. First link is approvals from all over to help assure writings validity.

http://valtorta.org/church_approval_his ... tiques.asp

http://valtorta.org/the_poem__freeonlin ... goffer.asp

Tell me what you think, as I believe you and I may have that extracurricular search in common. Please don't let the Catholic thing perturb you, her denomination is of no consequence to the over all content of what is being written.

Thanks for that, she is quite a prolific writer and goes into a lot of detail about various scenes in the gospel.

I have only read about 10 chapters.