Evidence for God from Science

Audie wrote:

Jac wrote:

Audie wrote:I believe in any case the word "render" ala KJV, or "give" as you said it, is more properly translated as return.

Note how he takes a coin, points out whose face is on it.

Return Ceasars (impure, detested, foreign) things to him, and return the temple, the holy land, to God.

In the interest of being succint, I'll just say that I wouldn't put so much emphasis on "return." The English word has a wrong connotation, as if the destination is what is important. The KJV picked the word "render" because it has a better connotation. The real idea is to make a payment on something owed. Jesus is saying that the Jews ought to pay what they owe to Ceasar, and they ought to pay what they owe to God. In the former, we are talking things like taxes. In the latter, we are talking about absolute love (per Deut 6:4ff).

FYI, the same word (apododomi) is used in Matt 16:17 to refer to God "rewarding" us for our works. We cannot say that God "returns" to us our works. That doesn't make any sense. So, once again, the word apododomi does not mean "give back" or "return," although such English translations may catch the idea of any given passage.

Hmm. I think I failed in my interest here.

Why do you suppose he made a point of showing whose face was on the coin?

The coin was not in Caesars pocket, but, it was his; of him, from him, owed him, to be returned to him.

Do you disagree with the concept that he was saying that the holy land, the temple etc belong to God?

If they did, then they cannot be "given' to Him, but, only returned.

So if Jesus was making a balanced statement, using the same word, he meant return.

You'll make a good theologian yet.

Audie wrote:Why do you suppose he made a point of showing whose face was on the coin?

The coin was not in Caesars pocket, but, it was his; of him, from him, owed him, to be returned to him.

Do you disagree with the concept that he was saying that the holy land, the temple etc belong to God?

If they did, then they cannot be "given' to Him, but, only returned.

So if Jesus was making a balanced statement, using the same word, he meant return.

Actually, you have it backwards. You are right in looking for balance, but you are going the wrong way.

First, it is important to see that they were talking about a "tax" or "tribute." Taxes and tributes are that which is owed. By showing them the image, Jesus isn't making any claims on Caesar owing any coins. He is saying that the Jews owe Caesar the money; it is "his," and his image illustrates that. By the same taken, mankind is the image of God. Jesus' real interest is in whether or not the Jews are paying God what they owe HIM. And what they know Him is a lot bigger than anything having to do with the Temple. It goes to the Shema: "Hear, O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD alone!" (my translation) They owe God their very selves.

And that's where the balance piece you raise is important. The Jews aren't being asked to "return" something to God that is theirs. They are being told to pay God what they owe Him. They were not doing so. As such, Caesar's face is just an object lesson for the Jews' faithlessness.