Evidence for God from Science

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Interesting, or typical?

Yes, you are right, "typical" would have been accurate.

Kurieuo wrote:BUT, then what are the solutions FL? If the bubble can be pricked... or heads pulled out of sand... what then?

There is NO solution! Things will just get worse. At best, we can slow down the process but there is no solution.

If there's no solution, then there is no point.

FL wrote:For Christians who believe what the Bible says - and there are less and less of us as time goes by - prophecy was written long ago about this time. The good news is that Jesus will win the battle in the end.

What end times theology do you follow?
It certainly shouldn't make one revel in evils happening.

Think about why you and others feel a need to wake people up.
If there is no solution or desired response you want from people, then why --
to get them excited that Jesus might be returning?

Perhaps there's some ironic commonality between your beliefs and "extreme" Muslims
-- these events both excite your hearts, only for different reasons.
Muslims see excited in their jihad for Allah, and to you excited for a hastening Jesus' return.

FL wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:I use to be on some Facebook groups. A lot of news was terrible. I felt obliged to read the stories, to see the pictures, videos know what is really happening. It just left me depressed, and feeling hopeless. Even angry at God that He didn't/doesn't pour out His righteous wrath upon us all.Such is not healthy nor necessarily worthwhile as a Christian.

Hmmm...I don't like these events but I don't get depressed about these things. I see them as confirmation of the biblical text.

So these events excite you and make you happy then due to your end times theology?
"These events" have been happening since Christ was crucified.
There is nothing really new to Christians being persecuted.

FL wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Even though such things are sadly true, and going on around the world, such just makes us feel bitter, hopeless, resentful, angry and hateful.Well it did me anyhow. And you know who wants us, wanted me, to feel that way?

Who wants you to feel that way? The easy answer is Evil or terrorists or something outside yourself. Apart from righteous anger, all the emotions you noted are negative: bitterness, hopelessness, resentfulness and hate. Anger can promote action (as with your anti-abortion activities) but the other emotions promote escapisms: alcohol, TV, beating your wife, and whatever other negative things you can think of...

So, to conclude, 1. there is nothing we can do to make things better, 2. Jesus wins in the end, 3. don't let this stuff get to you in a negative way, 4. do something positive: pray, promote a ministry or do something adapted to your personality.

Lazarus died, but Jesus still wept.

There is nothing we can do to make things better, but pray and promote a ministry?
What good is it praying for a hungry person, "may God feed your belly" and then walking on?
And in doing so, maybe support a ministry such as the pastor of your own church who left his wife for another woman there to go and start another church?

You are right though, that Jesus will bring an end to and triumph over all evil, if that is what you mean by "wins".
BUT, to remain unimpacted by such evils, even be excited by or delight in such evil being committed due to some hastening of Jesus' return?
Well, that just seems evil to me and at odds with Scripture.

Philip wrote:Personally, I can't watch stuff like that, although I well know how terribly real and serious it is. Burning alive, stoning, mutilations, beheadings - I don't need to see such, can't bear to. But I know, for some people, such things are just routine words on page 3 of a newspaper. Real footage of such atrocities can have a powerful impact in waking up naive people to the very real and horrid reality of what is going on. Meanwhile, most of the world is just immersed in their video games, mindlessly texting and Facebooking away the narcissistic minutia of their lives. The masses often fail to realize the very real threats of evil until it is upon their doorsteps or it touches someone they know (think ISIS, al-Qaeda Taliban, etc).

And I'll pose the same question that I asked of FL.

Once it is truly realised, what then... what action should be taken?

Kurieuo wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Interesting, or typical?

Yes, you are right, "typical" would have been accurate.

Kurieuo wrote:BUT, then what are the solutions FL? If the bubble can be pricked... or heads pulled out of sand... what then?

There is NO solution! Things will just get worse. At best, we can slow down the process but there is no solution.

If there's no solution, then there is no point.

FL wrote:For Christians who believe what the Bible says - and there are less and less of us as time goes by - prophecy was written long ago about this time. The good news is that Jesus will win the battle in the end.

What end times theology do you follow?
It certainly shouldn't make one revel in evils happening.

Think about why you and others feel a need to wake people up.
If there is no solution or desired response you want from people, then why --
to get them excited that Jesus might be returning?

Perhaps there's some ironic commonality between your beliefs and "extreme" Muslims
-- these events both excite your hearts, only for different reasons.
Muslims see excited in their jihad for Allah, and to you excited for a hastening Jesus' return.

FL wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:I use to be on some Facebook groups. A lot of news was terrible. I felt obliged to read the stories, to see the pictures, videos know what is really happening. It just left me depressed, and feeling hopeless. Even angry at God that He didn't/doesn't pour out His righteous wrath upon us all.Such is not healthy nor necessarily worthwhile as a Christian.

Hmmm...I don't like these events but I don't get depressed about these things. I see them as confirmation of the biblical text.

So these events excite you and make you happy then due to your end times theology?
"These events" have been happening since Christ was crucified.
There is nothing really new to Christians being persecuted.

FL wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Even though such things are sadly true, and going on around the world, such just makes us feel bitter, hopeless, resentful, angry and hateful.Well it did me anyhow. And you know who wants us, wanted me, to feel that way?

Who wants you to feel that way? The easy answer is Evil or terrorists or something outside yourself. Apart from righteous anger, all the emotions you noted are negative: bitterness, hopelessness, resentfulness and hate. Anger can promote action (as with your anti-abortion activities) but the other emotions promote escapisms: alcohol, TV, beating your wife, and whatever other negative things you can think of...

So, to conclude, 1. there is nothing we can do to make things better, 2. Jesus wins in the end, 3. don't let this stuff get to you in a negative way, 4. do something positive: pray, promote a ministry or do something adapted to your personality.

Lazarus died, but Jesus still wept.

There is nothing we can do to make things better, but pray and promote a ministry?
What good is it praying for a hungry person, "may God feed your belly" and then walking on?
And in doing so, maybe support a ministry such as the pastor of your own church who left his wife for another woman there to go and start another church?

You are right though, that Jesus will bring an end to and triumph over all evil, if that is what you mean by "wins".
BUT, to remain unimpacted by such evils, even be excited by or delight in such evil being committed due to some hastening of Jesus' return?
Well, that just seems evil to me and at odds with Scripture.

K, K, K...

Your whole post just strikes me as a ridiculous attempt to portray me as a bloodthirsty nut Sorry, but I can't take your post seriously because it is mostly a big load of crap. However, I will say this:

We can't change prophecy, but what we can do is support - with money & prayer - organizations that help Christians (and others) overcome the difficulties of this life, especially those Christians who live in the worst places on earth to be a Christian. The horrors of this world are immense, IMMENSE! and few of us in the West have any idea how bad things are. Reading about how 20+ Coptic Christians were massacred on a beach in Lybia is awful but easily forgettable. The Charlie Hebdo massacre? Forgettable! The Sydney Massacre at the Lindt shop? forgotten already! The serviceman hacked to death in London? who? The bus bombings in London? When was that?

All these stories fade into the back of our minds over time because we are never impacted with their horror for more than a few moments. To make the stories stick in your head, you have to see them.

Hasn't seeing a fœtus convinced many a woman to not abort? or to be against abortion? or to be an activist against abortion? Do you think those gruesome photos of aborted babies were wrong as the "pro-lifers" insist?

How does it feel to be hit with your own shoe?!

FL

PS...don't worry, I forgive you!

I'm not trying to paint you a villain or nut.
All here know you're quite a character and likewise very Christian.
You've also donated to those Christians persecuted in such countries.
Your heart is sincere, but your thoughts here seem at odds with such (at least to me).

I DO question a certain end times theology that make Christians happy to see these evils.
The more evil the better, because Christ in their minds will then return sooner in all His glory.
In fact, why bother helping or try stopping such? As you say, there is nothing we can do except delay Christ's return, so...
I'm not putting any words in your own mouth that you didn't say. I'm just replaying them in some light.

Re: abortion, entirely different issue.
Showing people what they are actually killing in utero serves a purpose.
Namely, it helps to educate people that perhaps they're not just discarding a "simple clump of cells" but a real live person.
It helps people to think about at what stage the human fetus is actually human and so deserves human rights.
The desired outcome is to change the minds of people so that they stop taking innocent human life.

I keep hearing the same rhetoric, "people should stop burying their heads in the sand and see the evil."
This is stupid. As though entertaining some video of the atrocity in the comfort of one's own home does anything.
Short of going there and experiencing what is happening for one's self, watching such arguably desensitizes and helps set a new norm.
Also, splashing a bit of money around in some ministry and feeling one's done their job is equally silly.
One should not just forgive, but give 70 times 7. And that in my head should including giving personally of themselves (not just wealth).
I'm not saying that I do this, in fact by comparison to you, I'm sure I'm quite pitiful. BUT, one can always do more. And I often feel burdened by such.

Anyway...

Without any reason for entertaining such atrocities and watching this evil as ISIS desires (and you said there is nothing we can do),
then what can only remain is some form of delighting in it for some reason or another.
The irony is that Christians may delight in such evil, just as much as ISIS.
Christians believing in a particular end times theology and excited by a hurrying Christ's return.
Maybe when it reaches their doorstep, these Christians will get to see Christ sooner only in a way they didn't want.

FL,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure you do feel some regret over posting the link.
I did see the link and stopped viewing video before the branding disappeared.
That was my choice, and certainly not because I'm turning a blind eye.

Yes, you want people just to know perhaps because you just hate people living their lives without thinking about such.
I too hate that people often prefer the blue pill (blissful ignorance) over the red pill -- if you've ever watched The Matrix.
But, seriously consider some things I've mentioned as I think there's much truth in what I've said, even for self-examination.

Your passion, just comes out, well... differently.
Many here are quite aware of the evil and don't need to see it.
I'd hope, many are inspired some into action (rather than believing nothing can be done short of delaying Christ's return).
Into action to try and reach out into any manner possible to support brothers and sisters in Christ, as well as others.

I'm sure that's what your hope would be too, even if you hastily responded nothing can be done.

I can see what you're trying to do, and what you hate about such blindness in the world, so just didn't want to end with my last post.
BUT, we all work differently to each other. Some, especially many here, don't need to see the evil to know it exists or have such knowledge retained.
And short of directly experiencing the situation it may all be forgotten anyway, right?

I do pray that we all do our best to not be deceived, to not remain complacent and to support those who need it in every way possible no matter where they are located.
I'm sure that is something all of us can agree upon.

FL...

I, for one, do not, will not forget.

I am still haunted by the images of those poor souls who leapt from the WTC. I still pray for the victims of 7/11, still see the blood stained hands of the killers of Lee Rigby. Don't you dare tell me I forget.

I am a sensitive spirit and I'm not ashamed of it nor do I apologise for it.

My greivance wasn't so much that you posted the video, more that you put no warning on it. I suppose I should have guessed but if you had warned us, I wouldn't have needed to. It should have been my choice whether to view those horrific images. You took that choice away from me.
Just because I would choose not to watch does not mean I am burying my head in the sand, it simply means I don't need, or want, to experience that horror in that way.

Storyteller wrote:
... I still pray for the victims of 7/11,...

I too pray for the victims of 7/11. You know, being obese and having diabetes from all the 64oz. 711 big gulps!

I too pray for the victims of 7/11. You know, being obese and having diabetes from all the 64oz. 711 big gulps!

Dang, Rick beat me to it! That was like a slow pitch right where you want it!

Don't forget the victims of Krispy Kreme, Mickey Dees, etc.

Must be am American thing. I don't get it!

9/11 Annette

Yes A-net. You wrote 7/11 instead of 9/11. 7-Eleven is an American convenience store, famous for their 64 ounce Big Gulp drinks. Which if consumed a lot, can contribute to obesity, and diabetes.

And yes, it is a joke that probably only Americans, and maybe FL, would understand.

RickD wrote:Yes A-net. You wrote 7/11 instead of 9/11. 7-Eleven is an American convenience store, famous for their 64 ounce Big Gulp drinks. Which if consumed a lot, can contribute to obesity, and diabetes.

And yes, it is a joke that probably only Americans, and maybe FL, would understand.

Ah, but that's where you're wrong....

I didn't write 7/11 instead of 9/11.

Although I did muddle the dates slightly. I should have put 7/7

I was referring to the London bus bombings.

Kurieuo wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure you do feel some regret over posting the link.

Nope. The only thing I regret is not having posted a warning. Although I am writing in English and you may assume that I think like you, there is a cultural divide between me - a native French speaker - and most of the anglophones who post on this board. There is a current of self-censorship in the English-speaking world that doesn't exist in the francophone world. Although both linguistic groups consider their press "free", that freedom is constrained differently. Political correctness is not tolerated in the French press, which is why we got to see the Danish cartoons and the Charlie Hebdo cartoons whereas the English-language media chose not to show them.

Kurieuo wrote:Without any reason for entertaining such atrocities and watching this evil as ISIS desires (and you said there is nothing we can do), then what can only remain is some form of delighting in it for some reason or another. The irony is that Christians may delight in such evil, just as much as ISIS.

Did you read what you wrote?! I support a Catholic anti-abortion site here and they send me pictures that are just awful to look at. They use these pictures in their campaigns against abortion and they claim that the shock value works. Do you really think that they print these pictures because they delight in them?

And your "End-Times" mumbo jumbo isn't for me. This has nothing to do with escatology. Have you been smoking something stronger than cigarettes?!

FL

FL, lets do one day.

Kurieuo wrote:FL, lets do one day.

How? You don't drink and Australia is too far for me. However, I do plan to visit NZ eventually. We could meet there and chat over a bottle of that stuff that passes for "wine" in anglophone evangelical churches!

And, BTW, the SPCA sent me a letter asking for my donation. There are pictures of mistreated & severely emaciated horses seized during a raid at a farm. Now, I understand the cruelty humans inflict upon each other better than the cruelty humans inflict on animals. The normal human response to cruelty is some form of attack or vengeance but animals just endure their suffering until death.

Do you see how sin has so corrupted us?

FL