Evidence for God from Science

Starhunter wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:
Wow, I just...talk about reading into scripture what you want...
First off, it is clear that Jesus and His apostles DID drink wine ( the type is irrelevant).
Rules and prohibitions to getting DRUNK do NOT equal prohibitions to actual drinking, if that was the case then celibacy would be biblical because there are rules about fornication, know what I mean?
That John the baptist didn't drink means that he didn't drink and that is all it means.
Daniel did not drink because the wine was an offering to a pagan God.
Only the nazarites were commanded not to drink.

By the very same logic of thinking then any passage that advice's against eating too much or gluttony means that people should not eat.

Luke says it clearly:
Luke 7:33-35

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”

Honestly, I can see what you are trying to do but this is a case of you reading what you WANT into what is clearly not there.

There is no prohibition in the OT or NT against the drinking of wine UNLESS you are part of a specific group ordained by God not to drink OR if, for some reason, God has told you for it to be so.
IN short, it is between the individual and God.

Drunken, however,is prohibited.

If alcohol acts like a poison on your body and brain, then it is off limits as far as God is concerned, especially if it interferes with spiritual discernment. But you are welcome to think otherwise, I am not making a judgement, just stating the tenor of the scriptures in regards to health.

The fact is that the SDA's are today the longest living society on earth, compared to other denominations they live an average of 25 to 40 years longer, so I would not be too hasty to dismiss what they propose about the principles of health.
And it is interesting that most SDA's do not follow to the letter what is recommended, which if they did, their life expectancy would be double the average age 100 - 120 years old.

Currently most SDA's don't smoke, drink alcohol, and eat mostly fruit, vegetables, nuts and grains.
They eat regular meals and say grace before eating. Etc

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.

Please who me the OT laws that states:
Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
Drinking of alcohol is prohibited.

There are 612 laws, show me where those two are.

neo-x wrote:If only Gman was around.

Starhunter wrote:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470496/

There you go...

Once doctors and scientists gave evidence that smoking is actually good for you in moderation.

Does that sound familiar?

No one is here to take your bottle away from you.

Only remember that intemperance is intemperance. And we all know what God will do to those who defile their body temple. We read it before - "...him shall God" ...what..."destroy."

So if science proves that any amount of alcohol is detrimental, what will you say? Are you still going to believe that Jesus shared the bottle with His disciples?

Check this out - 300 facts about alcohol consumption. http://www.utexas.edu/research/asrec/alcoholfacts.html

Starhunter wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Starhunter wrote:

RickD wrote:Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.

Please who me the OT laws that states:
Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
Drinking of alcohol is prohibited.

There are 612 laws, show me where those two are.

The 612 laws belonged to the civil laws of Israel as a theocracy. These laws are typically thrown in the face of anyone who mentions the ten laws of God which God wrote - not Moses. It's called being opportunistic and willingly ignorant.
When we are talking about God's commandments, it is the ten laws that He wrote with His own finger.
Even the laws of the Sanctuary regarding the ceremonial rites and ordinances were written by Moses under instruction.

These laws would be temporal with the sanctuary service until it ended, and the civil laws would only stand until Israel had forfeited its own connection to God as King and leader of their nation.

The laws of God will stand forever, and they apply to the human race globally in all times. The wicked will be judged by that law. That is taught right throughout the Bible.

20 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]slavery.

RickD wrote:Paul,

We've asked Starhunter for a biblical basis that backs up his assertions. He hasn't given any specific verses from scripture that he thinks back his assertions. He's just given generic reasons that he thinks the bible promotes.

And now, despite what the bible actually says, he claims believers are supposed to follow the 10 commandments.

If he actually read Exodus 20 in context, he would see that the 10 commandments were given specifically to Israel.

Look what it says here, before the 10 commandments are listed. Keep in mind that this is what God said:

20 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]slavery.

He is speaking to a specific people at a specific time.

The Catholic Church views the commandment to “remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy” (Exodus 20:8-10) as an essential part of observing the command to “love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind.”(Mark 2:27-28) [42] Catholic teaching emphasizes the holiness of the Sabbath day (Exodus 31:15),[43] connects the Sabbath with God’s rest after the six days of creation (Exodus 20:11),[44] views the Sabbath as a reminder of Israel’s liberation from bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15),[45] and views God’s example of resting on the seventh day as an example for human resting and protesting the servitude of work and the worship of money. (Exodus 31:17, 23:12) [46] The Catholic Catechism discusses many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the Sabbath law, and points out that Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.(Mark 1:21, John 9:16) Jesus is described as giving the Sabbath law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."(Mark 2:27) With compassion, Christ declares the Sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.(Mark 3:4)[47]

Sunday is distinguished from the Sabbath, which it follows. According to Catholic teaching, ceremonial observance of Christ’s resurrection on the first day of the week replaces that of the Sabbath.

Sunday is described as a fulfillment of the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and an announcement of man's eternal rest in God.[48] The Catholic Catechism describes Sunday celebration as observing the “moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship.” Thus, Sunday worship fulfills the “moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.”[49] The Catholic Church teaches that the Lord’s day should be “a day of grace and rest from work” to cultivate their “familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.”[50] On Sundays and other holy days, faithful Christians are to refrain from work and activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, works of mercy, and the “appropriate relaxation of mind and body.”[51] Christians also sanctify Sunday by giving time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. “Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.”[52] In addition to one’s own rest, Christians should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day.[53]