Evidence for God from Science

Continued from the above frame on page three

Seventh Creation Day Part Three

Clean Translations:

Matrix One Reveals:

Perfection ploughed by, God the strong one, competes his creative works, done for the purpose of completing perfection’s rest, consummated by death and resurrection caused by rebellion, hubris, and apostasy.

God the strong one blesses His ploughing to perfection by sanctifying his creative works to rest in the harmony of (his) governing order.

New beginnings by the new birth completes the harmony of (his) governing order by resting in the wisdom of faith completed by death and resurrection made for the distinct purpose to sanctify.

New beginnings by the new birth completes the harmony of God’s governing order, made to set apart from rebellion, hubris, apostasy.


Matrix Two Reveals:

Verifying the union or division in the household by all perfection’s ploughing, God the strong one, competes his creative works done for continuing on to establish resting in (his) perfection by means of death and resurrection.

God the strong one, the Holy One that saves blesses by perfection’s plough sanctifying his creative work/pathways to rest in the harmony of (his) governing order for purpose that sins can be repented of all fashioned by sorrow from breaking down walls of fellowship.

God’s gifts to move the heart to him to complete divine order/responsibility written to complete salvation, deliverance’s release from prison all done for the exceeding sinfulness of sin by means of blessings that forgiveness and repentance bring forth.

So lament for the fallen King who blesses by fulfilling promise to supply (greatest) need by sins openly repented of caused the by sorrow from breaking down walls of fellowship.

Matrix Three Reveals:

Perfection’s plough, Elohim, finishes creative works/ways to complete his perfecting, creative works by keeping/obeying commands of YHWH

Elohim, completes perfection by creative works/ways of Elohim by creating a deadly blow to the king of the Jews.

Bring low by God’s might fire burns enemies as payment for sins done/planned for workers who divided the assembly into host that keep/obey commands of YHWH and those who obey shameful Lust.

Consummated by bringing low by God’s might, made to accomplish a distinct purpose, fire burns enemies as payment for sins for the deadly blow to the king of the Jews (Note: what happened in 70 AD to Israel? - interesting and also what will happened in Revelation 20?)


Matrix Four Reveals:

Testing the household by truth consummates perfection, Elohim, finishes (his) creative works/pathway, to complete (his) perfecting creative works by a Day of Wrath and darkness on those that exchanges grace for sin.

Elohim, The Holy One, completes perfection, by (his) creative works/pathways completed by Elohim who establishes a Judge who does right, the King of King voicing a ransom prayer or a condemning prayer.

Gift, the voice of God, Champion of God, consummates God’s Glory that seals the challenger (who) steps up to injustice and faith abused (is) fashioning a Day of Wrath and darkness to the house that exchanges grace for sin.

Those that forget God fall from an unspoiled inheritance are set apart by the King’s anointing as Judge who does right/the King of Kings.
(Note Rev 20:12 concerning this last part of the matrix)
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Bumping the thread up...

Topic of creation days Has come up on the -- Do YECs accept "ordinary days"? Thread...

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... &start=150

So to add to it here, again let us look at the 6th creation day account:

Genesis chapter Two concerning Adam and Eve creations, duties etc, all logically happened on the 6'th day of creation because the 7 day of creation had not come about due to the work going on and none resting.

So if this were are real 24 hour earth day period, then lets look at what happened.

The creation days all begin in the evening and end the following sundown. Therefore, this follows the narrative that God made animals and Adam sometime in the evening hours of the sixth day. He next brings all the animals before Adam to name.

How many of these species were there then? 10 or 50? or thousands upon thousandths? Well there are about 8.74 million animal species in today's world

http://news.discovery.com/earth/plants/ ... 110823.htm

You do the math. Back in creation say there were only one million, how long would it take to name them all?

Has this been considered by YEC's?

Maybe so but explained away in various ways no doubt.

As I mentioned prior:

The Six Day of creation, if it were a real 24 hour day then during those 24 hours, Adam would have named all the animals, been put to sleep and operated on, and woman made...

Now men, if there was the perfect women, and you gals, saw the perfect man before you - what would you be thinking?

Hubba hubba - Adam says .. a WOMAN and Eve says A MAN! Hubba hubba what's this I see let's.... hmmmm edited...

Imagine that God would intervene during this time and say, only have 24 hours, lot of animals to name, No you two back to work, all hanky panky later after the seventh day that is...

So during the evening hours, God made the Animals and Adam. Had Adam name these in the dark, then put him is deep sleep, make Eve, before dawn or at least by midday... There are how many species of animals around and could these be named in a 24 hour day as well as trending and keeping the Garden of Eden as well too?

Whew, I can't get that all done in one day - can you?

Then see your mate for the first time and all the yearning too?

.. Come on now, that was one heck of a 24 hour period wasn't it?

How many animals could Adam have named during a 24 hour day with the only rest being put to sleep by God and operated on by God then Eve?

Toss n the fall of man in the mix and what a heck of a day!

This defies logic. Yes, one can pass it off as a miracle and Adam was superman and Eve Lois Lane but that simply defies all logic of even miracles. Even if God made the sun to stand still, then the 24 hour day was much longer than 24 earth hours.

So explain how could all animals be named (character assigned is more likely than a mere name like elephant) in a 24 hour day, be put to sleep, operated on, and finding your perfect mate naked before you as well as tending too and keeping a really big garden all happen in a literal 24 hours?

So, how long then were all God's creation days?
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Before I move on looking at the layered meanings in chapter two, we have on another thread the subject of creation days. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... &start=240

I am adding some of that here before moving on with the study... so enjoy!

abelcainsbrother wrote:...Thanks for the explanation. I shall consider it but I have never thought of it this way. I've never thought Genesis chapter 2 tells us what all happened in the 6th day. I've always thought it just explains a little more about God creating Adam and Eve and then placing them in the garden of Eden,it seems speculative to know how long it took God to place Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I guess it could have been right after however it does not say,it could have been after the 6th day. Plus we have the "and the evening and the morning"problem also.

Now when I think about science and the Big Bang Theory the bible seems to describe not only the Big Bang but both the 1st and 2nd laws of Thermodynamics too, still for some reason when I read Genesis I'm not sure how it would fit into it, but I like Hugh Ross and highly respect his knowledge of science and I loved it when he defeated atheist scientist Victor Stingor in the debate they had.Hugh Ross had Stingor bringing up unsubstantiated scientific ideas trying to make it substantiated science. I really believe had Hugh Ross came to the Lord with the Gap Theory?

The theory of Evolution would have been defeated long ago and Hugh Ross rejects evolution too. I wonder if some knowledgable Gap Theorists could change Hugh Ross's mind to accept the Gap Theory? I doubt it. There were some Gap Theorists joking about several of them going to Ross to try to convince him to change his mind,but I said I doubt it would change his mind,but its worth a try.

All creation account theories are theories. The Gap was long held in vogue. Clarence Larken chartered it out during its heyday of acceptance. Then there is the YEC and OEC theories.

The main point of the Creation account is that God created, period. With that we can all agree.

Like Rick pointed out, in ancient Hebrew, Yom, was used to denote time several ways. God created during His creation Day time frame, not ours. His ways are not our ways and his time is not our time. God acts in our time as well as outside of it. God is timeless, eternal. Since he is, his sense of time contains that part of himself.

It was not until the 4th Creation day that there was ever a 24 hour earth day created. Our time is not his. We cannot demand that he adhere to our timetable as he knows when best to act and answer our prayers.

Why do we demand that God must be YEC or else? I don't know?

After looking into his these many years as a Christian, first a YEC, then thought of GAP, then after careful study of the Hebrew text in Genesis and grammar, word, meanings and symbols, and logic I am OEC for the fact that it does not matter how old or young the earth is, just that God made it all, and in that, I am content.

What caught my attention to OEC on a progression scale was coming to understand how the Hebrew's thought through a problem to solve it. They allowed free flowing exchange of ideas and from these one found truth. One reason for my own OEC position is that God's time is not ours. No one can measure his days. The idiom expression, one day to God is as a thousand years and a thousandth year is as one day, gives clue to this found in 2 Pet 3:8.

Add to this that His creation Days are not the same time duration is found during the 4th day of creation when earth time was clearly established. God's narrative of creation uses his time zone, not ours. Another thing that struck me is the use of backtracking in ancient text writers employed. Gen 2:4 shows this clearly.

Gen chapter one makes it clear it was on God's sixth day of creation he made human beings and ends in Gen 1:31 declaring all was good by the end of the sixth day, so good in fact God rested on the seventh creation era. Chapter two backtracks and then adds more details on the Sixth creation day era of time giving details. No other time could Genesis chapter two happen especially if it it was really a 24 hour day.

If this was merely a 24 hour earth day, then a lot happened. Way too much to be possible. If it is the case of a earth day period of 24 hours, then Adam and Eve lost paradise within a 48 hour period. That is a pretty hectic schedule. Now if God's creation days are based on his own eternal time, then His 6th creation day lasted many-many earth 24 hour periods, long enough for Adam and Eve to carry out the task of the Garden God had them do. Then God declares it is good and moves into His own next creation day - a day of rest.

During that day, it is picked up in Genesis chapter 3. Adam and Eve were not working. Must have been resting when the serpent came and they fell away from God and removed from Eden. The earth day seventh day commentates our resting in God, his word, his provision, and our falling away from this, and our regaining entering his rest through what Jesus Christ did for us by Grace.

In all appearances, we are still living in God's seventh day Rest period so we can honor it by taking one day out of the week to recall what happened and how our reconciliation. This day is not Saturday or one particular solar calendar day but rather under the grace of the NT it is any day we deem to take.

OEC progression allows for God to be God, the GAP as well does so too to act in any manner for however long he wants his creation days to be. How long they are is only known to him and in that, I am content and humbled.

The logic of the ancient Hebrew language does not suggest God's creation's days are equal to a 24 hour earth day. God's evening, morning, and sundown is quite different than our earth day. God lives in Heaven's dimension and time, not ours.

I recall how a Messianic Jewish Rabbi once asked me, "You think Adam lived 930 years total or would that rather be after the fall. After all God did say, in the day you eat - you will die/die!"

I think that one comment turned me to realize OEC is at least humble enough to say, "God, however long or short your creations days were does not matter - only you do - You created it all, amen."

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abelcainsbrother wrote:....I'm not trying to stir up division and strife but I must ask, where in the 6th day does it say Adam named all of the animals,etc? Let me be clear that I accept that "yom" an mean longer than a day. I don't see how anybody could deny this and I don't and it doesn’t effect the Gap Theory interpretation because God is eternal so time does not hurt, however there needs to be a reason to make it apply to the 6th day. The only way I could see how it could be done is to think that in Genesis chapter 2 it is telling us what happened in the 6th day.

Well it says so in verse 20:

Gen 2:20 NASN, The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field...

And Yes, logically, Chapter two happened on the six creation day because, later, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden, correct?

Next hypothesis, is when did the fall happen?

Was it during day six or day seven?

Only clues we have are found in Gen 1:31 God saw all he made as good, functioning perfectly, at the end of the sixth day.

So if the fall happened at the end of the sixth day, then it would have made a very busy day for Adam and Eve. The would indicated if the creation days are merely 24 hour long earth days, Adam and Eve had lost paradise within 24 hours.

I mentioned this info earlier on another thread as a hypotheses: the Fall happening on the sixth day to point out an inconsistency that the literal 24 hour earth days interpretation of the creation account has with time: the point being, it adds to an already busy schedule Adam and Eve had.

Genesis 2:1-3 speaks of the 7th creation day and God resting as well as desiring humanity to rest as well. Now the bible clearly reveals from God's own words that he never sleeps, slumbers, or rest; therefore, God's resting from his works is different than kicking back and doing nothing but rather has more to do with enjoying the fruit of thy labor and taking care of it joyfully and testing it (all in accordance to what the bible says about God)! God gave us the right to do the same sort of rest as well as the purpose for the Sabbath.

The seventh creation day begins in the evening and ends at sundown next day.

The next hypotheses concerning the fall of humanity is that it occurred on the 7th creation day because, God declared at the end of the 6th creation day all was going according to plan (very good). So during the 7th creation day of God, the fall may have occurred while Adam and Eve were resting.

Evidence for this:

Genesis Chapter Three paints a word picture that both Eve and Adam were not working when the fall occurred. It also paints the word picture of YHWH Elohim walking in the garden in the cool breeze of the day and He too is not working but checking creation out.

Hypotheses: The fall happened sometime during the 7th creation day and that era of creation has not ended.

Why do I say it has not ended?

Heb 4:1-4, Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "SO I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4-5 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS"; 5 and again in this place: "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."

Heb 4:6-7 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "TODAY," after such a long time, as it has been said: "TODAY, IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."

Heb 4:8-11 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. NKJV

See also Matthew 11:28,29 and Acts 7:49,50 Exodus 23:12 NKJV

Notice that we are saved by Grace and not of works. This too denotes the purpose of the 7th creation day. Next, God takes care of his creation as Psalms 147:1-20, Psalms 104:27-28, Psalms 136:25, Psalms 145:15-16, Job 38:41, Mat 6:26, and Luke 12:24 reveal. That is one reason Jesus mentioned this about the Sabbath in Matt 12:11,12.

Jesus went about showing the Father by doing what - granting rest from sin, sickness, and reconciliation into the true rest of God! Also on the Sabbath God test s creation as well as humanity (1Ch 29:17, Psalms 7:9, Eccl 3:18, Zec 13:9, and 1Th 2:4 ) to see who will abide in his rest or refuse.

Lastly, Rev 21:1-27 and Rev 22:1-21 speak of new beginnings and new beginnings come on the 8th day of creation. Think about it.

So during the beginnings of God's seventh creation day, the fall happened and Jesus Christ sets things right so we can reenter God's Rest by his reconciling work done by the cross/resurrection.

Make no mistake, I am saying this as a hypothesis not a thus saith the Lord.

This again is a hypotheses

So during the beginnings of God's seventh creation day, the fall happened and Jesus Christ sets things right so we can reenter God's Rest by his reconciling work done by the cross/resurrection.

That is basically the hypothesis of Old Earth Progressive Creation days that we are living in the current 7th creation day.

Now as for the age of Adam. That is not important as the ancient Hebrew language used to denote Adam's age could mean that Adam lived 930 years after the fall because God said in Gen 2:17 on the day you eat of it - you will die/die. How long he lived before death enter the world would be unknown as it is written in Romans 5:12 death entered.

One can easily read the ancient Hebrew concerning Adam's age referring to how long he lived after partaking what was forbidden, not actual age. This is in line with the ancient Jewish thought of: might be this - might be that, God knows... line of reasoning. Which engages a more healthy exchange of ideas than the western model of discussion.
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Gen 2:1-3 comments regarding the Seventh Creation Day...

As I stated before, God's creation days were as long as he wants them to be. We really do not know their length or shortness. Since ancient Hebrew was approximately 8,500 words, the word Yom - translated day in English, related to eras of creative time out of God's timelessness. I shared on a few clues such as the evening/morning cycle of God's creation days appears more inclined to indicates an entire cycle used to make something complete. Let me explain a bit more on this.

The evening/night time should be defined as God defines these according to the context. At the end o the sixth day of creation God said all was good, therefore, a good quality must apply to the first six creation days regarding evening-night phase of a day according to God's timetable. At least the logic suggests this.

The evening /night phase is a time of planning, preparation, when one wonders, what is going on. Daylight phase brings to light God's plans we can see him carry these out. Therefore do not think of these days as 24 hour literal periods like our time on earth but rather times God plans in secert, puts things in place and by dawn's light and the day, we see what he puts together. That is more what Genesis appears to be suggesting.

Next add in the meaning of the Hebrew letters (otiot) and their numeric meanings to each of the creation days’ reveals even more why these 6 creation days were long periods of time to complete each God's day cycle. So we come to the seventh day of creation. From indications, the fall of humanity happened on beginning of that day which would be evening period which would launch into full night and then dawn and the ensuing daylight phase.

If you are following me, we are living now, inside God's seventh day rest. The 8'th day has not begun. The 8th Hebrew letter and its numeric meaning is revealing. It is the Hebrew letter Chet which is a picture of a wall that separates and protects. The numeric meaning means a brand new day, new beginnings, an entry into new life.

So together you have God setting up protection by means of separating/removing something so a brand new day begins, a new kind of life begins. Read Rev 21:1,2,3,4 for example as this defines a brand new day. Rev 20:14,15 and Rev 21:8 indicates a separation had gone on. That is why I hypothesize that God's 8th day has not begun yet and that we are living in God's time of rest called his 7th creation day.

This 7th day, according to the context of creation days began in the evening. This symbolical fits, the fall from God's light/revelation/Grace into sin and man falling into another form of darkness. During this dark night, humanity could not see what God was doing. This time of God's night (beginnings of the 7'th day) when the patriarchs came, Covenant revealed, Moses came forth with the law or directives, King David and all through the first captivity and regathering of the people of Israel back into the land. and from there, just during the darkest of night - before dawn.

There was a time of silence during which the law and prophet’s writings guided Israel. Silence before dawn. Then the dawn came with the birth of Jesus Christ. Notice these verses: Isaiah 60:1,2,3,4,5, Isaiah 9:2, and, John 3:19 John 8:12, John 9:5, Matt 5:14, and 2 Co 4:4, and Mal 4:2.

The day goes forth and people begin to see God's plans not seen or understood before come to light up to this current era of human history. If we are in the last days, then evening is approaching. Shadows begin to fall and soon things will be shaken to begin a new day

Now read 2 Pet 3:1-14 and what do you see? I see a wall of separation coming forth into completion marking the beginning of God's true 8th day... just after the evening fades...

So if we are living in the time frame of God's 7th day, then his Creation days are as long as he knows best for them to complete his plan, purpose, and design. Amen.
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B.W, appreciated for talking about Bible study and sharing your knowledge for us.
I cannot talk about bunch of contexts simultaneously and just would like to start from Genesis 1:1

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

"In the beginning God ..." First of all, need to understand who is GOD and there is impossible to separate the meanings of Father & Son & Holy Spirit. They all are united and this solid unity is called GOD & Creator. New believers and new starter, they wasted many years (included myself, I also thought like this) because they really did not understand who is GOD and most of them, they do not understand about Holy Trinity. If we read Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. What is the our image? we can see from above versus, GOD says about himself as "WE". This "We" means is not talking about someone else.. . It's talking about Father, Son & Holy Spirit. So, from this versus, we can understand

The GOD is a Father
The GOD is a SON Jesus
The GOD is a Holy Ghost (Spirit).

Father is not a Son & Holy Ghost.
Son is not a Father & Holy Ghost.
Holy Spirit is not a Father & Jesus.

They all are images of the one GOD and He presents Himself as a Father, a Son and a Holy Spirit. Because His dimension is deeper and wider than what we can imagine. Those all have own goals & purposes.
1.The God (they all together) created the universe (including heavens 2 Cor 12:2-4) - Creator
2.The Jesus, only Son of GOD needs to pay the cost of our sins - Saviour
3. After lifted Jesus to the right side of His Father from Earth (Mark 16:19), we need support from GOD and He gave us His Spirit (Holy Ghost) John 14:16-17, 26-27 - Comforter & Guider.

This Holy Spirit is living is us and guiding us everyday in earth (Rom 8:26). The Saviour Jesus (Rom 8:34) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. So, That time, "In the beginning" Father & Jesus & Holy Spirit all together was there.

Guys please concern on I am still working on Genesis 1:1.

Now.. "God created the heavens and the earth". Why did not say .. created the earth and heavens. Because He created heavens first then created earth.

If we read Bible a little more, We can understand there is talking about 3 different levels which related to the heaven (s).

First heaven, our earth - our three-dimensional space.

Second heaven - 2nd Heaven, places of falling angels. However some theological explained it's talking about outer space, but as I see & read it's exactly related with falling angels. If we read the chapter 10 of Daniel, we can understand about 2nd heaven & Daniel's expression shows us not only about 2nd heaven it's also tells us about "theory of relativity". see Daniel 12:10-12..

Third Heaven - The dwelling place of the GOD.

I say again His time & His dimension is totally different than what we can imagine,.
Time is always being constant for humans, in GOD - time is variable character and it's just expandable and retractable. (2 Kings 20:9). This is reason why we cannot explain the timing of the creations by OEC and YEC ,.. then in the end, we start talking about gap theory etc,. for explaining .. we cannot calculate GOD's time & dimension by our measures and our thinking,., if I talk another things pls correct me,.

Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. If we read whole chapters of Proverbs, most of time there is only talking about Wisdom of GOD and especially says in Proverbs 3:19-20
19 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations,
by understanding he set the heavens in place;
20 by his knowledge the watery depths were divided,
and the clouds let drop the dew.

Gen 1:1, 1:2,... and all creation processes were tied with Wisdom of GOD. After GOD created human by right his hands, (God created universe, lights, heavens, waters, fruits, animals,. everything by just His words but He created only man then woman by His hand, it shows us how He Loved us from very first beginning, see 1 John 4:19), the formation of the earth still on progress (see Genesis 10:25). Oh GOD, how deep and how wide Your words,.
...
Bible Versus works like multi dimensional arrays and those all were communicated each other like full mesh connections,. so this is reason why when we read the scriptures, need to work for trying to find out other cross functional versus..

(sorry for my worst english)

B. W. wrote:Before I move on looking at the layered meanings in chapter two, we have on another thread the subject of creation days. http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... &start=240

I am adding some of that here before moving on with the study... so enjoy!

abelcainsbrother wrote:...Thanks for the explanation. I shall consider it but I have never thought of it this way. I've never thought Genesis chapter 2 tells us what all happened in the 6th day. I've always thought it just explains a little more about God creating Adam and Eve and then placing them in the garden of Eden,it seems speculative to know how long it took God to place Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. I guess it could have been right after however it does not say,it could have been after the 6th day. Plus we have the "and the evening and the morning"problem also.

Now when I think about science and the Big Bang Theory the bible seems to describe not only the Big Bang but both the 1st and 2nd laws of Thermodynamics too, still for some reason when I read Genesis I'm not sure how it would fit into it, but I like Hugh Ross and highly respect his knowledge of science and I loved it when he defeated atheist scientist Victor Stingor in the debate they had.Hugh Ross had Stingor bringing up unsubstantiated scientific ideas trying to make it substantiated science. I really believe had Hugh Ross came to the Lord with the Gap Theory?

The theory of Evolution would have been defeated long ago and Hugh Ross rejects evolution too. I wonder if some knowledgable Gap Theorists could change Hugh Ross's mind to accept the Gap Theory? I doubt it. There were some Gap Theorists joking about several of them going to Ross to try to convince him to change his mind,but I said I doubt it would change his mind,but its worth a try.

All creation account theories are theories. The Gap was long held in vogue. Clarence Larken chartered it out during its heyday of acceptance. Then there is the YEC and OEC theories.

The main point of the Creation account is that God created, period. With that we can all agree.

Like Rick pointed out, in ancient Hebrew, Yom, was used to denote time several ways. God created during His creation Day time frame, not ours. His ways are not our ways and his time is not our time. God acts in our time as well as outside of it. God is timeless, eternal. Since he is, his sense of time contains that part of himself.

It was not until the 4th Creation day that there was ever a 24 hour earth day created. Our time is not his. We cannot demand that he adhere to our timetable as he knows when best to act and answer our prayers.

Why do we demand that God must be YEC or else? I don't know?

After looking into his these many years as a Christian, first a YEC, then thought of GAP, then after careful study of the Hebrew text in Genesis and grammar, word, meanings and symbols, and logic I am OEC for the fact that it does not matter how old or young the earth is, just that God made it all, and in that, I am content.

What caught my attention to OEC on a progression scale was coming to understand how the Hebrew's thought through a problem to solve it. They allowed free flowing exchange of ideas and from these one found truth. One reason for my own OEC position is that God's time is not ours. No one can measure his days. The idiom expression, one day to God is as a thousand years and a thousandth year is as one day, gives clue to this found in 2 Pet 3:8.

Add to this that His creation Days are not the same time duration is found during the 4th day of creation when earth time was clearly established. God's narrative of creation uses his time zone, not ours. Another thing that struck me is the use of backtracking in ancient text writers employed. Gen 2:4 shows this clearly.

Gen chapter one makes it clear it was on God's sixth day of creation he made human beings and ends in Gen 1:31 declaring all was good by the end of the sixth day, so good in fact God rested on the seventh creation era. Chapter two backtracks and then adds more details on the Sixth creation day era of time giving details. No other time could Genesis chapter two happen especially if it it was really a 24 hour day.

If this was merely a 24 hour earth day, then a lot happened. Way too much to be possible. If it is the case of a earth day period of 24 hours, then Adam and Eve lost paradise within a 48 hour period. That is a pretty hectic schedule. Now if God's creation days are based on his own eternal time, then His 6th creation day lasted many-many earth 24 hour periods, long enough for Adam and Eve to carry out the task of the Garden God had them do. Then God declares it is good and moves into His own next creation day - a day of rest.

During that day, it is picked up in Genesis chapter 3. Adam and Eve were not working. Must have been resting when the serpent came and they fell away from God and removed from Eden. The earth day seventh day commentates our resting in God, his word, his provision, and our falling away from this, and our regaining entering his rest through what Jesus Christ did for us by Grace.

In all appearances, we are still living in God's seventh day Rest period so we can honor it by taking one day out of the week to recall what happened and how our reconciliation. This day is not Saturday or one particular solar calendar day but rather under the grace of the NT it is any day we deem to take.

OEC progression allows for God to be God, the GAP as well does so too to act in any manner for however long he wants his creation days to be. How long they are is only known to him and in that, I am content and humbled.

The logic of the ancient Hebrew language does not suggest God's creation's days are equal to a 24 hour earth day. God's evening, morning, and sundown is quite different than our earth day. God lives in Heaven's dimension and time, not ours.

I recall how a Messianic Jewish Rabbi once asked me, "You think Adam lived 930 years total or would that rather be after the fall. After all God did say, in the day you eat - you will die/die!"

I think that one comment turned me to realize OEC is at least humble enough to say, "God, however long or short your creations days were does not matter - only you do - You created it all, amen."

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abelcainsbrother wrote:....I'm not trying to stir up division and strife but I must ask, where in the 6th day does it say Adam named all of the animals,etc? Let me be clear that I accept that "yom" an mean longer than a day. I don't see how anybody could deny this and I don't and it doesn’t effect the Gap Theory interpretation because God is eternal so time does not hurt, however there needs to be a reason to make it apply to the 6th day. The only way I could see how it could be done is to think that in Genesis chapter 2 it is telling us what happened in the 6th day.

Well it says so in verse 20:

Gen 2:20 NASN, The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field...

And Yes, logically, Chapter two happened on the six creation day because, later, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden, correct?

Next hypothesis, is when did the fall happen?

Was it during day six or day seven?

Only clues we have are found in Gen 1:31 God saw all he made as good, functioning perfectly, at the end of the sixth day.

So if the fall happened at the end of the sixth day, then it would have made a very busy day for Adam and Eve. The would indicated if the creation days are merely 24 hour long earth days, Adam and Eve had lost paradise within 24 hours.

I mentioned this info earlier on another thread as a hypotheses: the Fall happening on the sixth day to point out an inconsistency that the literal 24 hour earth days interpretation of the creation account has with time: the point being, it adds to an already busy schedule Adam and Eve had.

Genesis 2:1-3 speaks of the 7th creation day and God resting as well as desiring humanity to rest as well. Now the bible clearly reveals from God's own words that he never sleeps, slumbers, or rest; therefore, God's resting from his works is different than kicking back and doing nothing but rather has more to do with enjoying the fruit of thy labor and taking care of it joyfully and testing it (all in accordance to what the bible says about God)! God gave us the right to do the same sort of rest as well as the purpose for the Sabbath.

The seventh creation day begins in the evening and ends at sundown next day.

The next hypotheses concerning the fall of humanity is that it occurred on the 7th creation day because, God declared at the end of the 6th creation day all was going according to plan (very good). So during the 7th creation day of God, the fall may have occurred while Adam and Eve were resting.

Evidence for this:

Genesis Chapter Three paints a word picture that both Eve and Adam were not working when the fall occurred. It also paints the word picture of YHWH Elohim walking in the garden in the cool breeze of the day and He too is not working but checking creation out.

Hypotheses: The fall happened sometime during the 7th creation day and that era of creation has not ended.

Why do I say it has not ended?

Heb 4:1-4, Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "SO I SWORE IN MY WRATH, 'THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Heb 4:4-5 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS"; 5 and again in this place: "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."

Heb 4:6-7 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "TODAY," after such a long time, as it has been said: "TODAY, IF YOU WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS."

Heb 4:8-11 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. NKJV

See also Matthew 11:28,29 and Acts 7:49,50 Exodus 23:12 NKJV

Notice that we are saved by Grace and not of works. This too denotes the purpose of the 7th creation day. Next, God takes care of his creation as Psalms 147:1-20, Psalms 104:27-28, Psalms 136:25, Psalms 145:15-16, Job 38:41, Mat 6:26, and Luke 12:24 reveal. That is one reason Jesus mentioned this about the Sabbath in Matt 12:11,12.

Jesus went about showing the Father by doing what - granting rest from sin, sickness, and reconciliation into the true rest of God! Also on the Sabbath God test s creation as well as humanity (1Ch 29:17, Psalms 7:9, Eccl 3:18, Zec 13:9, and 1Th 2:4 ) to see who will abide in his rest or refuse.

Lastly, Rev 21:1-27 and Rev 22:1-21 speak of new beginnings and new beginnings come on the 8th day of creation. Think about it.

So during the beginnings of God's seventh creation day, the fall happened and Jesus Christ sets things right so we can reenter God's Rest by his reconciling work done by the cross/resurrection.

Make no mistake, I am saying this as a hypothesis not a thus saith the Lord.

This again is a hypotheses

So during the beginnings of God's seventh creation day, the fall happened and Jesus Christ sets things right so we can reenter God's Rest by his reconciling work done by the cross/resurrection.

That is basically the hypothesis of Old Earth Progressive Creation days that we are living in the current 7th creation day.

Now as for the age of Adam. That is not important as the ancient Hebrew language used to denote Adam's age could mean that Adam lived 930 years after the fall because God said in Gen 2:17 on the day you eat of it - you will die/die. How long he lived before death enter the world would be unknown as it is written in Romans 5:12 death entered.

One can easily read the ancient Hebrew concerning Adam's age referring to how long he lived after partaking what was forbidden, not actual age. This is in line with the ancient Jewish thought of: might be this - might be that, God knows... line of reasoning. Which engages a more healthy exchange of ideas than the western model of discussion.
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Gap Theorists can go along with the creation days being longer than 24 hour days,however because of the phrases "and the evening and the morning were the first day" it really seems to mean God is saying they are normal days but I acknowledge the great points that Progressive creationists bring up about "yom" which can mean longer than a day but also the great points about all that happened on the 6th day as you have explained very well as well. But if Gap Theorists can grant you that the days can be longer than 24 hours,why can't Progressives acknowledge there was a gap between Genesis 1:1 and verse 2? And continue to ignore the fact that 2nd Peter 3 talks about three different ages of the heavens and earth like the trinity? And still claim it is talking about Noah's flood and only two heavens and earths? Is it because of the Big Bang Theory?

That description of OEC/Progressive creationism makes sense to me, I like it.
Can you do me a favour B.W. and explain Theistic evolution in that manner?
And maybe YEC?

Just so I can ponder

Storyteller wrote:That description of OEC/Progressive creationism makes sense to me, I like it.
Can you do me a favour B.W. and explain Theistic evolution in that manner?
And maybe YEC?

Just so I can ponder

Theistic Evolution the best I can do to summarize is to go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution to get te basics.

Theistic Evolution in my own words expresses that evolution was set in motion by God and from that premise several different schools of thought developed based on several variation of deism's divine clock maker theory: Creation is like a clock that God made and set then he goes away and watches without interference. Or he may tinker with it to keep it going and repair it as needed. Or God is inside or outside the clock making sure it keeps time perfectly. There is a blend of science and theology in Theistic Evolution.

As for YEC, they theorize that God made all the universe in six literal 24 hour solar day earth rotations and that is it.
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