Evidence for God from Science

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:

IceMobster wrote:What is the point in living if there is eternal nothingness afterwards? Note that I am not implying the: "If there is no God, everything is allowed." - it is irrelevant in this case.
Does it matter if you do this or that in this ~80 years of your life if you perish into nothingness after death?
If there was no God, I would kill myself right now, so, why don't you do it?
I've read somewhere that (from an atheist point of view) the purpose of life is to share the knowledge onto the next unit (being, probably the descendant), but what is the point in that? So they can do the same while your nous disappears as you die knowing their will, too?

It's about the journey; not the destination.

Ken

Then it ends and there is no point to it all anyway
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Depends what the point is.

Nothing like a theistic argument over existence and meaning between unbelievers.

Audie: Hows abouts I put some girl pants on you, ya swab?

(did that sound tough? maybe if I had a deeper voice?)

Audie: We are taught that to do what you feel like doing instead of what you know to be right is the essence of self indulgence. Following how one feels not what is rational.

Min, how do decide what you consider the right thing? And what do you do if what you think is the right thing, but someone else directly impacted by your decision instead considers it harmful.

RickD wrote:He said English isn't his first language. Maybe he thinks you can't speak.

Oh, she can speak English. She just can't answer the questions and resorts to things like "It's an ESL thing (even though I didn't know only one adjective)" feeling all superior how English is her main language and what not. Doesn't matter actually.
I skipped the part where you asked the question because you inserted it into the already existing quote, so, you did not conclude I was self-indulgent but merely asked a question.
The answer is no, Audie. I do not reckon to be self-indulgent.

Audie wrote:You may have noticed I will stand and fight anyone. 49 kg of fightin' c-ette is nothing to mess with.

HOWEVER, as our friend seems to wish merely to be rude, I see no reason to
offer him someone to be rude to.

Joking around is one thing, being a jerk is another.

What? I wish to merely be rude? How was I rude? By answering your question?

Audie wrote:is this really how you think?

IceMobster wrote:Why would I post it otherwise? Yes, that is my opinion.

Anyway, reading again, I realized you gave us half of the answer, I guess:
"Reality is not affected by how one happens to feel about it. It makes no sense to try to deceive myself, Billions of years went by before I was born, and none of it seemed to bother me. Same for after. Im sure this bothers some people, it may help account for why so many cultures are sure there is some afterlife."

However, that still doesn't explain the point of your life. I am certain I would become a nihilist if this quote above was applied to me. So, my question is, what keeps you from not being one?
And how is it rational to believe that we are a product of coincidence (and lots of it)? How can coincidence produce symmetrical, connected and balanced form?

Audie wrote:Why enjoy summer if you know winter is coming?

I am not sure I fully understood what you wanted to say with this. Mind explaining it?

B. W. wrote:And to Ice,

This is for you. Don't kill yourself. There is eternal life and a new life to be had in Jesus Christ. You uncovered the atheism dilemma - they defend nothingness because in the end, the universe will someday implode.

You have a conscience, feelings, emotions, intelligence, and personality that makes you different from all other human beings and far different than animals. God made you to be able to have these so you can find your way back to him because we abandoned God. He did not abandon us. The Lord, thru Jesus Christ, came to reconcile you back to Himself so you will find the true purpose for your life that only He will lead you to discover once you come to him jsut as you are without one plea of deal making on your part.

So don't give up and simple pray, "Lord Jesus I come to you and not sure you are really real so reveal yourself and make me yours, born again, of your eternal spirit, release me of my craziness, faults, shame, dysfunctions, depression, and take me, I am yours. Forgive for not believing in you - reconcile me back to you and never let me go, fill me with thy Holy Spirit, and teach one day at a time more about you in Jesus name, Amen..."

No matter the bravado of atheist and atheism proclaiming that they value life, they actually value that life ceases into nothingness and when the universe implodes, there will be no more human race. They only offer hollowness of ideas and words and thus have no answers. You seem to be discovering this, haven't you?

So put away far from you whatever scheme/plan to end you life because the Lord Jesus Christ who came in human flesh destroys and unbinds all the works of the evil one that seeks to end your life. God has..

...For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, says the LORD, and I will bring you back from your captivity... <a target="_blank" data-purpose="bible-reference" data-version="nkjv" data-reference="Jer 29.11-14" href="http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Jer%2029.11-14" class="rtBibleRef">Jer 29:11-14 NKJV</a>
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Why would I kill myself if I uncovered the atheism dilemma? I want to debunk it as something illogical but seeing as there are quite a lot of atheists in the world today, I would like to hear their side of the story.

"No matter the bravado of atheist and atheism proclaiming that they value life, they actually value that life ceases into nothingness and when the universe implodes, there will be no more human race. They only offer hollowness of ideas and words and thus have no answers. You seem to be discovering this, haven't you?"
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Storyteller wrote:If there was nothing after death, wouldn`t that make life even more precious? To be made the most of?

You say if there was nothing after death then you`d kill yourself (btw, please, please don`t say things like that, even to prove a point. I have seen the devastation suicide causes) but to me that just doesn`t make sense. You are hastening the very thing you object to. If there is something after life (especially if it`s better) then surely it would makes sense to want to get there quicker?

The point of life is to experience, to feel, to laugh, to love, to exist, to live. The point of life is to live.

(Putting this lot in brackets because these thoughts occurred to me as I typed and I wanna get them down before I forget. Suicide is a sin as far as I can remember, why? Because life is a gift from God and only He has the right to end life. Which means life is important otherwise surely taking your life to get to a better place wouldn`t be a sin would it?)

My apologies for not seeing this post earlier. I do not say I would kill myself to prove a point. I would really do it if there was no God. My reason allows me not to think otherwise, much like my reason does not allow me to rely on faith.

PaulSacramento wrote: The point of life is there is nothing after?
Heck son !

Here you go:

“The greatest joy a man can know is to conquer his enemies and drive them before him. To ride their horses and take away their possessions, to see the faces of those who were dear to them bedewed with tears, and to clasp their wives and daughters in his arms.”

Thanks Genghis

Are you dumb? I said I do not understand people who say that there is nothing after this life, not that the point of life (for me) is that there is nothing after.

Why do I even bother?

Why do you even bother with what???? Try reading again my first post(or the one quoted here). I DID NOT (this is NEGATIVE connotation bro) say that the point of life is that there is nothing after! Get it? I DID NOT claim that.
My objective was to find why and how people find a purpose in their life if there truly is nothing in the end.
Do you understand now why I called you dumb? Sorry for that.
I am just angry that my point(s) was/were not validly read and understood, yet commented upon.

And another question:

Philip wrote:

Audie: We are taught that to do what you feel like doing instead of what you know to be right is the essence of self indulgence. Following how one feels not what is rational.

Min, how do decide what you consider the right thing? And what do you do if what you think is the right thing, but someone else directly impacted by your decision instead considers it harmful.

Why would you really do it if there is no God?

Either way life is a gift.

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:

IceMobster wrote:What is the point in living if there is eternal nothingness afterwards? Note that I am not implying the: "If there is no God, everything is allowed." - it is irrelevant in this case.
Does it matter if you do this or that in this ~80 years of your life if you perish into nothingness after death?
If there was no God, I would kill myself right now, so, why don't you do it?
I've read somewhere that (from an atheist point of view) the purpose of life is to share the knowledge onto the next unit (being, probably the descendant), but what is the point in that? So they can do the same while your nous disappears as you die knowing their will, too?

It's about the journey; not the destination.

Ken

Then it ends and there is no point to it all anyway
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Of course there is! The journey is the point of it all. Right now I am eating Ice cream while communicating to you. A Million years from now nobody will care that at this point and time I have chosen to eat Ice cream, but I am not eating Ice cream to impress someone a million years from now, I'm eating it because I enjoy it right now! That's the point of it all. I'll have to admit; I've never understood this idea that if it doesn't matter a million years from now, it is just useless activity.

Ken

Storyteller wrote:

B. W. wrote:

Kenny wrote:

IceMobster wrote:What is the point in living if there is eternal nothingness afterwards? Note that I am not implying the: "If there is no God, everything is allowed." - it is irrelevant in this case.
Does it matter if you do this or that in this ~80 years of your life if you perish into nothingness after death?
If there was no God, I would kill myself right now, so, why don't you do it?
I've read somewhere that (from an atheist point of view) the purpose of life is to share the knowledge onto the next unit (being, probably the descendant), but what is the point in that? So they can do the same while your nous disappears as you die knowing their will, too?

It's about the journey; not the destination.

Ken

Then it ends and there is no point to it all anyway
-
-
-

Depends what the point is.

Exactly! And as I've said countless times, it is about the Journey which means there is a point to it all

Ken

IceMobster wrote:Can we get back on topic, please? I still don't have any idea how did she conclude I am self indulgent.
I'd like to know why Audie thinks atheism makes any sense if eternal nothingness awaits you. Nothingness which means your mind and the ability to think is gone after this life.
I know I am coming dangerously close to nihilism, but both claim there is nothing after this life, so, I would like to hear her(or anyone's) thinking concerning the topic.
I want to understand that way of thinking.

I can't speak for Audie, but for me atheism is not something I choose because it sounds fun, or is preferred, I accept it because I believe it to be the truth.

Ken

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

Audie wrote: Awfully self indulgent, don't you think?

Sorry what, LOL?
English is not my native language but synonym for what you just said is hedonistic(not necessarily in a materialistic way), right? Also, epicurean?
Not even close.
How and why did you conclude that?

No "LOL" involved.

We are taught that to do what you feel like doing instead of what you know to be right is the essence of self indulgence. Following how one feels not what is rational.

For some it is hedonism, yes. It takes many forms, tho, no? Being a jerk, being disloyal, selfish, cruel, those are all indulgence.

Audie wrote:Emotions give power to doing what is right, they are not to be left in charge.

Why?

Why? Because they do? Maybe that is the function of emotions? Other animals have dmotions..
I dont get your q.

Why not allow emotions to be in charge? That is so obvious

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

IceMobster wrote: Why would I post it otherwise? Yes, that is my opinion.

Awfully self indulgent, don't you think?

Awfully harsh and intolerant, don't you think?

Is that what you really think?

Honestly?

Yes.

Huh...ok. Im surprised you'd think that. You dont think self indulgence is the essence of it?

Philip wrote:Nothing like a theistic argument over existence and meaning between unbelievers.

Audie: Hows abouts I put some girl pants on you, ya swab?

(did that sound tough? maybe if I had a deeper voice?)

Why did you say that? Honest and complete answer is solicited.

Philip wrote:

Audie: We are taught that to do what you feel like doing instead of what you know to be right is the essence of self indulgence. Following how one feels not what is rational.

Min, how do decide what you consider the right thing? And what do you do if what you think is the right thing, but someone else directly impacted by your decision instead considers it harmful.

I will or wont respond, depending on your answer to above q.

Ice, I was speaking of and for myself when I said its an ESL thing.
English is not my first language.

I was not trying to act superior.

If you want a reset, fine with me.

The above post in which you speak about me to me and to others on divers topics
would be difficult to format for a response, the more so with this tiny tablet.

If you have a single topic, separate it out and I will see what I can do with it-if you like.
With every reasonable effort at mutual respect?

Kenny wrote:

IceMobster wrote:Can we get back on topic, please? I still don't have any idea how did she conclude I am self indulgent.
I'd like to know why Audie thinks atheism makes any sense if eternal nothingness awaits you. Nothingness which means your mind and the ability to think is gone after this life.
I know I am coming dangerously close to nihilism, but both claim there is nothing after this life, so, I would like to hear her(or anyone's) thinking concerning the topic.
I want to understand that way of thinking.

I can't speak for Audie, but for me atheism is not something I choose because it sounds fun, or is preferred, I accept it because I believe it to be the truth.

Ken

Choice has nothing to do with it. Its not "in the face of". Its not nihilism.

Philip wrote:
Nothing like a theistic argument over existence and meaning between unbelievers.

Audie: Hows abouts I put some girl pants on you, ya swab?

(did that sound tough? maybe if I had a deeper voice?)

Audie: Why did you say that? Honest and complete answer is solicited.

Because, sometimes, I find your sarcasm creative and funny.