Evidence for God from Science

Wow! I guess our unease about your pastor's motives may have some merit.

Keep us posted.

I would think VERY direct but polite questions are in order:

Hopefully, what is being asserted here is NOT that Christians and Muslims worship the same God - is it?

Doesn't the Quran assert Jesus is not God and that He was neither Crucified or Resurrected?

Doesn't the Bible assert He IS God and that one must have faith in Him as our crucified and resurrected Lord so as to be saved?

So, how can these be the same? If the Bible prolifically asserts things necessary to salvation, about the true identity of Jesus, and as Muslims and the Quran deny these, how can Muslims be saved? How could they possibly worship the same God?

You wont' be effective at drawing out the truth if you are unwilling to risk people feeling uncomfortable. Many Christians (or those whom identify as such) truly are clueless about this issue. And they've been absorbing so much PC nonsense, that preaching faith in Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven is narrow-minded and prejudice against Muslims. People need to wake up to understand that they either believe what the Bible teaches about Jesus' identity or they can't really call themselves Christians.

Christian, I'll pray for you to be bold on this!

Christian2 wrote:What I need to do is watch the tone of my voice while making comments. I'm practicing now. LOL

You could always write a complaint to the church also, and why they're endorsing Islam over and above Christ (if that is what unfolds). Praying for you Christian2. You know, perhaps also targeting the central Christian truths like Philip suggests is a good approach.

Christian2,

I wish you were closer to me. I'd like to sit in on this soirée.

Any chance the pastor is recording the event?

Philip wrote:I would think VERY direct but polite questions are in order:

Hopefully, what is being asserted here is NOT that Christians and Muslims worship the same God - is it?

Doesn't the Quran assert Jesus is not God and that He was neither Crucified or Resurrected?

Doesn't the Bible assert He IS God and that one must have faith in Him as our crucified and resurrected Lord so as to be saved?

So, how can these be the same? If the Bible prolifically asserts things necessary to salvation, about the true identity of Jesus, and as Muslims and the Quran deny these, how can Muslims be saved? How could they possibly worship the same God?

You wont' be effective at drawing out the truth if you are unwilling to risk people feeling uncomfortable. Many Christians (or those whom identify as such) truly are clueless about this issue. And they've been absorbing so much PC nonsense, that preaching faith in Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven is narrow-minded and prejudice against Muslims. People need to wake up to understand that they either believe what the Bible teaches about Jesus' identity or they can't really call themselves Christians.

Christian, I'll pray for you to be bold on this!

Thank you for the prayers.

Kurieuo wrote:

Christian2 wrote:What I need to do is watch the tone of my voice while making comments. I'm practicing now. LOL

You could always write a complaint to the church also, and why they're endorsing Islam over and above Christ (if that is what unfolds). Praying for you Christian2. You know, perhaps also targeting the central Christian truths like Philip suggests is a good approach.

Thank you for the prayers.

RickD wrote:Christian2,

I wish you were closer to me. I'd like to sit in on this soirée.

Any chance the pastor is recording the event?

I don't know if he intends to record it. I wonder if I could but wouldn't that be against the law?

I'm taking a friend with me.

Christian2 wrote:

RickD wrote:Christian2,

I wish you were closer to me. I'd like to sit in on this soirée.

Any chance the pastor is recording the event?

I don't know if he intends to record it. I wonder if I could but wouldn't that be against the law?

I'm taking a friend with me.

Maybe you could just ask if you could record it. The worst he could say is no.

It'd be good, because if it gets really anti-Gospel like now you've got a recording to send along side any letter which those at the higher levels in your denomination ought to understand.

Christian2 wrote:I didn't know where this topic should be posted.

My senior Pastor of my United Methodist Church is holding 6 sessions on Islam based on the video series "The Jesus Fatwah" http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart ... hp?cat=493

I review it for him and gave him 10 pages of typed notes.

In my opinion it is an apologetic for Islam.

I found some "flaws" in it.

C2, do you mind PMing me a copy of your notes.
I'd be interested to read them.

Let us know how the first sessions goes. Eck.
Still have this on my mind and praying for you.

Like God raised Esther for a time such as she had, you're probably the perfect person in this situation given your interactions over the years with Muslims. Someone like you who truly has a heart for Christ and understands.
I can clearly see that and hope you realise that too.

Oh how I pray for Christian. I know how often I've thought to myself, "Why do I always have to be THAT guy - you know, the one who always opens the can of worms that makes everyone feel uncomfortable." Really, it stresses me out, but yet I know I must do it! Is it to win friends and popularity? If so, it's not working!

Kurieuo wrote:

Christian2 wrote:I didn't know where this topic should be posted.

My senior Pastor of my United Methodist Church is holding 6 sessions on Islam based on the video series "The Jesus Fatwah" http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart ... hp?cat=493

I review it for him and gave him 10 pages of typed notes.

In my opinion it is an apologetic for Islam.

I found some "flaws" in it.

C2, do you mind PMing me a copy of your notes.
I'd be interested to read them.

Let us know how the first sessions goes. Eck.
Still have this on my mind and praying for you.

Like God raised Esther for a time such as she had, you're probably the perfect person in this situation given your interactions over the years with Muslims. Someone like you who truly has a heart for Christ and understands.
I can clearly see that and hope you realise that too.

I want the notes as well!

The session this morning went pretty well. The program is apologetic, as I expected. The Muslim lady will only be at the last session. The next session is about the Christian Crusades and I am brushing up.

From the handout for session two -- something I had never heard before:

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/charter1.html

In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.

An English translation of that document is presented below.


This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion is to be on them.

Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

The Muslims are to fight for them.

If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

Have any of you ever heard of this?

Thanks.

At the end of the day, while interesting to know, a snapshot in time of one point in the Muslim world, as far as the CHURCH is concerned, it really matters very little how any individual Muslims or various groups once treated Christians, what the instructions were, etc. And there are a variety of interpretive Muslim takes on the Quran. What ultimately matters is that the Quran is an anti-Christ collection of writings, possibly altered somewhat from Mohammad's originals by his various successors. But what really matters is, what does the Quran, as it is widely disseminated today, say about Jesus, and will it lead those whom believe them to their doom or salvation.

The positive side of all of this is it offers others an opportunity to see what the leadership of a particular church believes and teaches, and whether or not it harmonizes, conflicts with, or contradicts Scripture. In this way, people have an opportunity to choose - will they follow the traditions and teachings of man, or will they believe and do as the Bible tells us. As soon as I hear a church teaching critical things in conflict with Scripture, I would know it is time to leave it.

Christian2 wrote:The session this morning went pretty well. The program is apologetic, as I expected. The Muslim lady will only be at the last session. The next session is about the Christian Crusades and I am brushing up.

From the handout for session two -- something I had never heard before:

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/charter1.html

In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.

An English translation of that document is presented below.


This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.

Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.

No compulsion is to be on them.

Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.

No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims' houses.

Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God's covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.

The Muslims are to fight for them.

If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.

No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).

Have any of you ever heard of this?

Thanks.

Yes I have.
But you won't get much of a response except the kind that you got from Philip. Which was it doesn't matter what any historical snapshot of how Muslims once treated Christians. Which led very quickly into I know what I do, leave the church.
With no regard for actual content of the material

If you want more input on this thread again, go back to being suspicious and paranoid of Muslims then you'll get plenty of responses.