Evidence for God from Science

Be careful with forcing him. Moral injury is a real psychological and spiritual problem. I appreciate not wanting to cause problems with the wife but worth remembering that he doesn't have to carry your stress. Just my own fairly worthless thoughts.

Edit:

For the record you know the boy. I don't. Truly, making him go might be appropriate. I'm just suggesting you take his own dignity and spiritual health seriously.

Jac3510 wrote:Be careful with forcing him. Moral injury is a real psychological and spiritual problem. I appreciate not wanting to cause problems with the wife but worth remembering that he doesn't have to carry your stress. Just my own fairly worthless thoughts.

Edit:

For the record you know the boy. I don't. Truly, making him go might be appropriate. I'm just suggesting you take his own dignity and spiritual health seriously.

I understand my son's feelings on this. He believes his uncle got married too soon after divorce. And he simply doesn't approve of it. My son's logic is that he understands he has to go to the wedding. But my son feels like if he dresses up, that means he approves of the wedding. He compares it to a pep rally at school. He's forced to go to the pep rally, but if he dresses up for the pep rally, that means he approves of it. I'm not sure what there is about supporting his school sports team, that's wrong, but that's why he feels that way about dressing up.

He's very adamant about trying not to do something that he feels is supporting something he can't support.

On my end, my son doesn't know the whole story with the divorce. He blames his uncle, and doesn't understand that his aunt plays a part in it as well. It's not completely his uncle's fault. And since my son doesn't know the whole story, nor do I, then it's not something to take a stand on. Once it's done, he can't take it back and have a do over.

The biggest issue for me is that I want my son to stand up for something he believes is right. It's a great trait to have. I want him to follow his conscience.

Philip wrote:

He should do what YOU want him to - he's not an adult, he's still in your charge - that is, unless you don't care what he does or doesn't. My sons often mistake my household for a democracy! Not as long as there is a King Philip around! But I do allow them to make most of their own decisions, unless I think their decisions will cause me our our household problems.

Philip, just to add to my last response to you...

This to me is a different kind of situation, than something else he doesn't want to do, like homework, waking up for school, doing chores he hasn't finished instead of going out, etc.

This is an issue that is a conscience issue. By dressing up for this wedding, my son feels that is his way of showing acceptance to the wedding. And for my son, it goes against his conscience if he shows approval to something that goes against his conscience.

For me, and my struggle with going to the wedding, I'm making a choice to put my wife above my disapproval of the wedding. So, while it is a conscience issue with me, it's something that I can "bite my tongue on", so to speak, for the sake of my wife.

There's a potential problem that could happen if I allow my son to just wear what he wants. If someone asks why he didn't dress up, I'm not sure if my son can answer the question with the proper maturity/tact that's necessary not to make a scene at the wedding.

Now don't get me wrong, he's shown a huge sign of maturity by fighting with me on an issue that goes against his conscience. But he's not the best at expressing his feelings yet. It took me a while to understand why he was ok going to the wedding, but had a problem dressing up for it. It didn't make sense to me, until I heard him really explain his perspective.

RickD wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:Be careful with forcing him. Moral injury is a real psychological and spiritual problem. I appreciate not wanting to cause problems with the wife but worth remembering that he doesn't have to carry your stress. Just my own fairly worthless thoughts.

Edit:

For the record you know the boy. I don't. Truly, making him go might be appropriate. I'm just suggesting you take his own dignity and spiritual health seriously.

I understand my son's feelings on this. He believes his uncle got married too soon after divorce. And he simply doesn't approve of it. My son's logic is that he understands he has to go to the wedding. But my son feels like if he dresses up, that means he approves of the wedding. He compares it to a pep rally at school. He's forced to go to the pep rally, but if he dresses up for the pep rally, that means he approves of it. I'm not sure what there is about supporting his school sports team, that's wrong, but that's why he feels that way about dressing up.

He's very adamant about trying not to do something that he feels is supporting something he can't support.

On my end, my son doesn't know the whole story with the divorce. He blames his uncle, and doesn't understand that his aunt plays a part in it as well. It's not completely his uncle's fault. And since my son doesn't know the whole story, nor do I, then it's not something to take a stand on. Once it's done, he can't take it back and have a do over.

The biggest issue for me is that I want my son to stand up for something he believes is right. It's a great trait to have. I want him to follow his conscience.

Perhaps it's best to talk about him about taking into account his ignorance of all facts when weighing the best approach to any given situation. That's a rather important life lesson, since there is never a case in which we know all of the facts. It just seems to me that, ultimately, your job is to raise him to be a responsible adult who understands and can live with his own decisions. And I think I see that's your focus in your post above.

He's definitely aware of how he feels on the subject, and that's great. He's willing to stand up for it. That's great. Is he able to see how others would feel about his actions (whether it is going and not dressing up or not going)? Can he identify who those people would be who would be affected by his actions . . . his mom, his uncle, others at the wedding, etc.? In other words, for what it's worth, as important as everyone's individual feelings are, including his own beliefs, I would want him to see this as a chance to learn about thinking about the whole. That's what really mature people do. Some things ARE willing to stand up for. But we have to be honest about what ALL of the consequences would be.

Jac3510 wrote:

RickD wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:Be careful with forcing him. Moral injury is a real psychological and spiritual problem. I appreciate not wanting to cause problems with the wife but worth remembering that he doesn't have to carry your stress. Just my own fairly worthless thoughts.

Edit:

For the record you know the boy. I don't. Truly, making him go might be appropriate. I'm just suggesting you take his own dignity and spiritual health seriously.

I understand my son's feelings on this. He believes his uncle got married too soon after divorce. And he simply doesn't approve of it. My son's logic is that he understands he has to go to the wedding. But my son feels like if he dresses up, that means he approves of the wedding. He compares it to a pep rally at school. He's forced to go to the pep rally, but if he dresses up for the pep rally, that means he approves of it. I'm not sure what there is about supporting his school sports team, that's wrong, but that's why he feels that way about dressing up.

He's very adamant about trying not to do something that he feels is supporting something he can't support.

On my end, my son doesn't know the whole story with the divorce. He blames his uncle, and doesn't understand that his aunt plays a part in it as well. It's not completely his uncle's fault. And since my son doesn't know the whole story, nor do I, then it's not something to take a stand on. Once it's done, he can't take it back and have a do over.

The biggest issue for me is that I want my son to stand up for something he believes is right. It's a great trait to have. I want him to follow his conscience.

Perhaps it's best to talk about him about taking into account his ignorance of all facts when weighing the best approach to any given situation. That's a rather important life lesson, since there is never a case in which we know all of the facts. It just seems to me that, ultimately, your job is to raise him to be a responsible adult who understands and can live with his own decisions. And I think I see that's your focus in your post above.

He's definitely aware of how he feels on the subject, and that's great. He's willing to stand up for it. That's great. Is he able to see how others would feel about his actions (whether it is going and not dressing up or not going)? Can he identify who those people would be who would be affected by his actions . . . his mom, his uncle, others at the wedding, etc.? In other words, for what it's worth, as important as everyone's individual feelings are, including his own beliefs, I would want him to see this as a chance to learn about thinking about the whole. That's what really mature people do. Some things ARE willing to stand up for. But we have to be honest about what ALL of the consequences would be.

Jac,

That's exactly what I've been trying to show him. First, that he doesn't have all the facts about the whole situation. Nor do I. And I've told him that when we make decisions on these kinds of things, it's not only about whether it's right or wrong, but also how our decisions affect others. So, even if he disagrees with the marriage, there are other things to take into account.

Sounds like you're doing the right thing. At bottom, it sounds, then, like you're struggling with the question of whether or not you should allow him to make such a statement. You can counsel him all you like, but in the end, he is still his own person (as you well know). My advice (I don't know if it counts as unsolicited or not in a setting like this ) would be to let him whatever statement he finally concludes is the right one to make, and then let him live with the consequences. And if people ask you how you could possibly tolerate such a thing, look at them confusedly and say, "Well he's his own person. If you have a problem with his actions, why don't you go ask him?" And then go straightway to your son and say, "You should know that so and so said to me that they're upset by your behavior here today."

The goal with that isn't to shame him. It's to get YOU out of the middle of it. You cannot stand between his actions and their consequences. You shouldn't be the gatekeeper of secrets. And same thing with your wife. It's not your job (in my opinion) to be the go between between the two of them. If she wants to take a stronger stand, well she's her own person and she can deal with the repercussions of that, just your son can.

I guess I'm just a bit concerned that you seem like you're carrying a lot of stress and anxiety over what, frankly, is someone else's problem. Maybe I'm misreading you, and that'd be fine--good even. But if I'm not, then what I say might sound a bit cold, but honestly, it isn't your concern. You can't control other people. Just yourself. All you can do is give the best advice you can, solicited or unsolicited, and then let other people make their own decisions. And when they get mad at you or frustrated with your or stressed and start taking it out on you, you just politely give it their anxieties right back to them for them to carry. And if, in seeing that you are okay (when clearly they are not) they want to ask your advice on how to approach the situation, then you're right back to square one with the new issue: you can offer your best advice and let them do with it what they will.

I don't know how long it is until the wedding (and I don't want to flip back through thread right now to find out if that has already been said), but a shortish book you might what to read is How Your Church Family Works. Really a great read, only $10 for the Kindle edition, and pretty much everything said about the church can be said about your own family.

RickD wrote:Recent discussions got me thinking about this question again.

For Christians and Theists only please.

If you got invited to a gay wedding of a friend or family member, would you attend? Why or why not?

Is attending a wedding, a show of not only celebration, but also your acceptance and blessing?

Bit late, but no I wouldn't.

I'd expect those who know me put two and two together, if they knew me at all...
If they wanted details then I'd give them details. If they wanted to debate, then I'd debate.
If they wanted to be my friend, then they can be my friend; BUT, always on open and honest terms.

I sadly don't have a relationship with my own Mum or sister due to that 'BUT'.
You don't really have a true relationship with someone if it's built upon pretence.

I'd love them regardless, but let them dance around where I stand,
rather then try and dance around where they stand.
I'm not good at dancing really.

As far as the issue with my son, I've decided to let him wear what he wants to wear.

And the funny thing about it, is that after I told him he could wear what he wants, I found out it's a casual dress wedding anyways.

The groom, my BIL, is wearing khakis and a Hawaiian shirt.

I really don't think there will be any issue.

Isn't it "funny" how these things seem to work themselves out?

Sorry for Late Post

If I was invited to a Gay Wedding, I'll be having double thoughts, why?

Why no go? Because I believe in God's words and disapprove of Homosexuality, though i wish them to strive to find the right path.

Why go? Because it'll make me look like a 'hater' or 'bigoted' or other ridicule names, also the possibility that i might be alienated with my family.