Evidence for God from Science

abelcainsbrother wrote: Yeah but unlike the lies of the news media about this birther issue we have Hillary on tape when she was running against Obama bringing it up,the news media refuse to play this video though because it proves the news media is lying about Trump and this birther issue and lying denying Hillary did indeed use it against Obama.

ACB...

If what you are saying is true, this is a very simple thing for you to prove.
Give us a link to the audio or video of Hillary claiming that Obama was not born in the US.
Instead of repeating the Trump campaign propaganda, just show us this video.

That is the easiest and most effective way to show that Trump is telling the truth, and that I have been brainwashed by the lying liberal media.

I think it is fair to say a lot of people clung to the birther issue, not any one person is to blame. And Obama released his birth certificate, releasing it earlier could have nipped it in the bud back when Hillary was campaigning against him.

Further more, I think more serious, is that fact that the US has trained and armed militant Islamic groups who are extremely violent and have killed many people, causing issues in Syria and other places before it. That, is much worse for Obama-Hillary, than any "birther" issue.

Kurieuo wrote:I think it is fair to say a lot of people clung to the birther issue, not any one person is to blame. And Obama released his birth certificate, releasing it earlier could have nipped it in the bud back when Hillary was campaigning against him.

Couple things -

1) Name another presidential candidate or president who was asked to produce his birth certificate. Anybody? Nope, just the black guy with the funny name. It was a BS issue from the beginning, and frankly he should have told the Birthers to go [love] themselves.

2) Obama released his long form birth certificate in 2011. Trump continued to drive the Birther conspiracy until last week. Nothing was going to nip it in the bud. As long as a conspiracy theory gets some traction politicians will use it to their advantage. Trump backed away because, although it was red meat for his base, it was a political liability with people outside the Breitbart Bubble.

Kurieuo wrote:Further more, I think more serious, is that fact that the US has trained and armed militant Islamic groups who are extremely violent and have killed many people, causing issues in Syria and other places before it. That, is much worse for Obama-Hillary, than any "birther" issue.

American meddling in the Middle East began with Obama? That's adorable, K.

Personally, I'd take it back a bit - maybe to our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq in 2001 and 2003? Or to arming the Afghan Mujahideen in 1970s? Or perhaps to Operation Ajax in 1953? Or to our support for Israel since 1949? The British invasion of Afghanistan in the early 1800s kinda set the stage for the last couple hundred years, so maybe we should start there?

Seriously, can we try to look at the bigger picture?

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: Yeah but unlike the lies of the news media about this birther issue we have Hillary on tape when she was running against Obama bringing it up,the news media refuse to play this video though because it proves the news media is lying about Trump and this birther issue and lying denying Hillary did indeed use it against Obama.

ACB...

If what you are saying is true, this is a very simple thing for you to prove.
Give us a link to the audio or video of Hillary claiming that Obama was not born in the US.
Instead of repeating the Trump campaign propaganda, just show us this video.

That is the easiest and most effective way to show that Trump is telling the truth, and that I have been brainwashed by the lying liberal media.

I did not say Hillary claimed Obama was not born in America.I said that she was the first to insinuate that Obama was not born in America. But Kurieuo already gave you evidence and it didn't change your mind. But this is what happened a photo showing Obama in a foreign country dressed in religious garb was put out by the Clinton campaign and it was to insinuate Obama was not born in America or was not a real American.But the point is the birther issue was used by the Clinton campaign against Obama,she is the one who used it first.Now she denies she had anything to do with the photo,but it was started by her campaign.
It was used kinda like the trick Ted Cruz's campaign used against Ben Carson sending out fake voter fliers telling Ben Carson supporters Ben Carson has dropped out and that you must vote for Ted Cruz now.The birther issue started from Hillary's campaign against Obama.It didn't work though.

abelcainsbrother wrote:The birther issue started from Hillary's campaign against Obama.

Ok, just for the sake of argument let's imagine that that's true. Does despicable behavior by some Clinton aide justify Trump's decision to personally lead the Birther conspiracy movement for 5 years after Obama released his long form birth certificate? If not then shouldn't he apologize for his actions?

edwardmurphy wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:The birther issue started from Hillary's campaign against Obama.

Ok, just for the sake of argument let's imagine that that's true. Does despicable behavior by some Clinton aide justify Trump's decision to personally lead the Birther conspiracy movement for 5 years after Obama released his long form birth certificate? If not then shouldn't he apologize for his actions?

No, he shouldn't, and you don't think he should, either. This is just a talking point for you--exactly the kind of idiocy I accuse you leftist dribble for. This is why I don't waste my time trying to have reasonable converastion with you, because it is stuff like this that shows that you aren't reasonable. You're just a partisan. You aren't even an ideologue. You just care about politics, damned be the truth or what's right.

And that's all the more reason he shouldn't apologize. You don't give people ammunition, and that's all you are looking for. Dishonest hacks ought not be given any consideration, and their demands ought not be entertained. He would do well to continue to do what he has been doing the entire time: ignoring fools who don't care about truth and speaking to those people who are persuadable, who haven't drunk the proverbial kool-aid.

edwardmurphy wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:The birther issue started from Hillary's campaign against Obama.

Ok, just for the sake of argument let's imagine that that's true. Does despicable behavior by some Clinton aide justify Trump's decision to personally lead the Birther conspiracy movement for 5 years after Obama released his long form birth certificate? If not then shouldn't he apologize for his actions?

You've missed the point and your dislike for Trump blinds you to the facts.Anybody watching that debate who did not know the facts were mislead by Lester Holt and Hillary Clinton and do not know the birther issue was started and goes back to Hillary and Trump is right to point this out. But liberals like yourself lie and slander political foes in order to win.it is not based on the facts. That Trump fact-checker you seem to like has already been debunked by the way of being just liberal biased opinions and not facts and this birther issue is an example of those fact-checkers you believe not knowing the facts and it ruins their credibility.

Add this evidence to the link Kurieuo gave,here is the last debate Hillary and Obama had and at 6:04 Hillary is questioned about the photo.There is also another link about it too.

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/articl ... google.com

abelcainsbrother wrote:Add this evidence to the link Kurieuo gave,here is the last debate Hillary and Obama had and at 6:04 Hillary is questioned about the photo.There is also another link about it too.

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/articl ... google.com

You are making the same 'mistake' that is regularly made by many in the Trump camp.
For some the mistake is genuine, and for some the mistake is deliberate misinformation.

The mistake at hand is the conflation of two separate issues.
1. Let's start with the legitimate accusation that can be made against the Clinton campaign in 2008. Some people in the Clinton campaign did perpetuate the narrative that Obama was a Muslim. Even though some Clinton campaign aides were fired for going down this path, there was an attempt by some in the Clinton campaign to paint Obama as someone who, due to his family foreign heritage and alleged Muslim persuasion, didn't share 'American' values.
This is a legitimate argument that can be made against the Clinton campaign in 2008.

2. This is a very different thing from the lie perpetuated by Trump that Obama was not born in the United States. And the recent follow up lie that Clinton started the birther movement. None of the links that either you or K have posted demonstrate that Clinton ever claimed 'or even insinuated' that Obama was not born in the United States.

Your links may show that some in the Clinton campaign briefly tried to paint Obama as a Muslim.
Your links may show that some in the Clinton campaign tried to make a political issue of Obama's foreign family heritage.
But as my many links clearly demonstrate, Trump's claim that Hillary started the birther movement, or ever claimed that Obama was not born in the US, is a bald faced lie that has been proven false by multiple sources.

A quick response to K,
The reason Trump's lies about the birther movement are so significant is that they are consistent with Trump's behavior during the Republican primaries and ever since. He was a serial liar during the Republican primaries, and he has continued that behavior in the General Election.

It's not just the liberal media that is calling out Trump on his lies. Trump also lied about Republicans and conservatives during the primaries, and Republicans and conservatives have called Trump out on his repeated lies too.

If a person is going to call out Clinton for her lies and dishonesty, then they should call out Trump for his lies and dishonesty as well...
...fair and balanced...

My .02

Does Evan McMullan lie?

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:Add this evidence to the link Kurieuo gave,here is the last debate Hillary and Obama had and at 6:04 Hillary is questioned about the photo.There is also another link about it too.

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/articl ... google.com

You are making the same 'mistake' that is regularly made by many in the Trump camp.
For some the mistake is genuine, and for some the mistake is deliberate misinformation.

The mistake at hand is the conflation of two separate issues.
1. Let's start with the legitimate accusation that can be made against the Clinton campaign in 2008. Some people in the Clinton campaign did perpetuate the narrative that Obama was a Muslim. Even though some Clinton campaign aides were fired for going down this path, there was an attempt by some in the Clinton campaign to paint Obama as someone who, due to his family foreign heritage and alleged Muslim persuasion, didn't share 'American' values.
This is a legitimate argument that can be made against the Clinton campaign in 2008.

2. This is a very different thing from the lie perpetuated by Trump that Obama was not born in the United States. And the recent follow up lie that Clinton started the birther movement. None of the links that either you or K have posted demonstrate that Clinton ever claimed 'or even insinuated' that Obama was not born in the United States.

Your links may show that some in the Clinton campaign briefly tried to paint Obama as a Muslim.
Your links may show that some in the Clinton campaign tried to make a political issue of Obama's foreign family heritage.
But as my many links clearly demonstrate, Trump's claim that Hillary started the birther movement, or ever claimed that Obama was not born in the US, is a bald faced lie that has been proven false by multiple sources.

A quick response to K,
The reason Trump's lies about the birther movement are so significant is that they are consistent with Trump's behavior during the Republican primaries and ever since. He was a serial liar during the Republican primaries, and he has continued that behavior in the General Election.

It's not just the liberal media that is calling out Trump on his lies. Trump also lied about Republicans and conservatives during the primaries, and Republicans and conservatives have called Trump out on his repeated lies too.

If a person is going to call out Clinton for her lies and dishonesty, then they should call out Trump for his lies and dishonesty as well...
...fair and balanced...

My .02

Your dislike for Trump blinds you DB and you ignored Kurieuo's link to spin it like you are about the birther issue. It seems you are expecting Trump to be perfect while overlooking the lies of the other candidates and them hiding things about their record. I do not expect any candidate to be perfect like you do and I will not defend Trump to be somebody perfect who is'nt.But Trump has been more honest and more scrutinized by the liberal news media and the Republican establishment you defend that abandoned the Constitution seeking out to globalism in secret.This is worse than anything you can pin on Trump.

Kurieuo wrote:Does Evan McMullan lie?

Not that I am aware of...

But even if he tried, he would have to work overtime to even approach the scope an frequency of the dishonesty that Trump and Clinton have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate on a regular basis.

DBowling wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Does Evan McMullan lie?

Not that I am aware of...

But even if he tried, he would have to work overtime to even approach the scope an frequency of the dishonesty that Trump and Clinton have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate on a regular basis.

I don't know much about the guy, tell me a bit about him that which makes you like him.

DBowling wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Does Evan McMullan lie?

Not that I am aware of...

But even if he tried, he would have to work overtime to even approach the scope an frequency of the dishonesty that Trump and Clinton have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate on a regular basis.

He would not last a second if he had to endure the lies and slander of the liberal news media,Clinton political machine and the Republican establishment that Trump is beating.

I'd back Pence before McMullan, Pence seems good to me. Not sure Evan's CIA ties is a good thing given CIA is like the opposite of transparency right?