Evidence for God from Science

Check your filter. What does the story say about those two people who prayed for her?

Jac3510 wrote:Check your filter. What does the story say about those two people who prayed for her?

Again, assuming the story is true, it says that two people prayed for her, and God healed her?


It doesn't say anything about the people who prayed for her. Unless I missed something in the video that says something that I missed. Is there something specific in the video that claims these people have a gift of healing?


I only watched the first video. If it's in the second one, I didn't see it.

Jesus said To whom much is given much is required. I believe the bible and it clearly teaches us there are gifts of healing and it does not say they die out when the apostles die,this is a manmade doctrine. However we live in a Christian society with a lot of unbelief about the bible,plus we have had people abuse gifts and so it causes more unbelief and so we don't experience big miracles like the apostles did. It is because of so much unbelief. I think it is more probable to see miracles such as the apostles did in non-Christian societies so that God gets the glory because we have so much unbelief of God's word in our Christian society. Perhaps a revival will happen and it will change but as long as unbelief remains we probably won't see the big miracles God can do. I blame our unbelief for why we don't see the big miracles God did with the apostles.

Just talking about the first video, and that fifty seconds in particular. And it says something pretty important about the people who prayed for her. Why did they go to that couple?

Might also help to know that the C&MA aren't pentecostals and so don't use pentecostal/charismatic language, but we also aren't cessationists, so don't use Baptist language either. I also, again, don't know why you would need to constantly qualify "if it's true" type things. I should expect that from an atheist or even if you were talking about some cultish style ministry. But this is all rather mainstream, it it is, again, disheartening to see that kind of skepticism. Pretty uncharitable.

Jac, my church is a C&MA.

That's cool! I wondered with you using Ravi's stuff.

Maybe you get what I'm driving at with the non-cessationist point and the language we use as opposed to Baptists on one hand and the AoG on the other.

Jac3510 wrote:Just talking about the first video, and that fifty seconds in particular. And it says something pretty important about the people who prayed for her. Why did they go to that couple?

Might also help to know that the C&MA aren't pentecostals and so don't use pentecostal/charismatic language, but we also aren't cessationists, so don't use Baptist language either. I also, again, don't know why you would need to constantly qualify "if it's true" type things. I should expect that from an atheist or even if you were talking about some cultish style ministry. But this is all rather mainstream, it it is, again, disheartening to see that kind of skepticism. Pretty uncharitable.

I thought she said she went to that couple because they asked her if she wanted them to pray for her.

And I said "if it's true", because I don't know them and don't assume it really happened. And you really don't know why anyone can be skeptical about stories of people being healed? Seriously?

I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm saying I don't know her from a hole in the wall. If this is how this conversation is going to go, then I'm really not in the mood for it. You asked for people's opinions. I'm giving you mine. If you don't want to hear it, don't ask.

Okay, I won't ask you, then. I asked for an opinion on a theological subject. I didn't intend on opening up these fellow Christians to attacks on their integrity, especially not from fellow Christians.

Jac3510 wrote:Okay, I won't ask you, then. I asked for an opinion on a theological subject. I didn't intend on opening up these fellow Christians to attacks on their integrity, especially not from fellow Christians.

Because I didn't assume it was true, I'm attacking their integrity?

You really need to get over yourself Jac.

RickD wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:Okay, I won't ask you, then. I asked for an opinion on a theological subject. I didn't intend on opening up these fellow Christians to attacks on their integrity, especially not from fellow Christians.

Because I didn't assume it was true, I'm attacking their integrity?

You really need to get over yourself Jac.

Assuming it's true that you aren't lying about assuming it's true, and assuming it's true that you are really writing this, and assuming it's true that aren't just trolling, assuming that you aren't just being silly and doing the clown thing, and assuming that you're actually a Christian and having been pretending all these years just to make fun of us and our silly theological conversations--I tend to think those are all fair enough assumptions I don't have to state them and that they are so fair it would be an attack on your integrity to make you state them--I'd just respond "okay then" and hope you get over youself enough to be more charitable.

You asked for thoughts on the story in particular. Since I personally don't know the people in the story, and haven't seen any healing, I have no way of knowing if it's true.


Is it really that difficult to understand that I'm just stating that, and I'm not questioning someone's integrity?

Assuming that you even watched the first video, and assuming that you don't actually know the people in the story, and assuming that you aren't a raging atheist who has seen lots of healings but just hates god and so refuse to accept it, and assuming that you honestly believe you aren't questioning anyone's integrity, I understand what you are trying to say. I don't know that you understand what I'm trying to say. And that's okay. You may permaban me if it makes you feel better. I won't hold it against you (or challenge your integrity on the matter). I will, instead, quite promptly get over myself.

But this is all rather mainstream, it it is, again, disheartening to see that kind of skepticism. Pretty uncharitable.

No, given the huge gap between people claiming there are Christians all over with such healing GIFTS, and the enormous lack of evidence proving such, our skepticism is understandable. And, I would ask, where are all the other videos of people that the couple in question supposedly have healed? Of restored sight? Lame from birth. Etc. I never even saw in the video anyone claim or assert some GIFT of healing, but that the couple was "encouraging" and "talked about healing." Of course, every person I've ever encountered in a community group who had an illness, we spoke of the hope of healing from God who has the power to do so. And we prayed over such people. I see no difference than what these people did.

Reasonable people of faith DO have skepticism IN THE CLAIMS OF OTHERS that remain unproven. That we still recognize that God DOES still do miracles shows that Jac's shaming techniques make for 1) poor evidence and 2) and are an unnecessary attack upon people who don't just swallow everything just because another Christian tells us it is true - despite that those telling the story or those in question are Christians. I see Rick's doubt is about the GIFT issue, not that the lady wasn't healed. Same here.

As for the video, I have no reason to doubt that this lady was miraculously healed. Not one problem their story, not one bit. But if THIS is being used to assert someone is walking around with a constant gift of healing - well, this ain't proof of asserting such GIFTS. Even the healed woman NEVER goes on about some supposed gift of the couple who prayed for her, though clearly grateful to them. What she constantly refers to is Jesus doing it. And that "THIS time, He said yes."

Next video - please send some REAL evidence for today sign gifts and instant/observable healings, like those astonishing ones in the NT done by the Apostles, that are continuously done by one with such gifts, and witnessed with credible proof. Because if that isn't evidence one has of such modern gifts, then they don't have proof to back up their words! And until I see such evidence, I'll remain skeptical. Again, I am NOT skeptical that God still miraculously heals people. Older guy in our church, very dangerous cancer was discovered. Much prayer was said for this man. Next scans/MRI or whatever, not a trace of the cancer. He was definitely miraculously healed. The evidence of the tests and films prove it, stunned his doctors!

Again, I expect we WILL begin to see sign gifts return, some day. But I have no reason to believe that that day has yet arrived.

You didn't ask for other videos, Phil. You explicitly asked for ONE example (caps and all). You wouldn't be moving the goalposts, would you?

Jac3510 wrote:Assuming that you even watched the first video, and assuming that you don't actually know the people in the story, and assuming that you aren't a raging atheist who has seen lots of healings but just hates god and so refuse to accept it, and assuming that you honestly believe you aren't questioning anyone's integrity, I understand what you are trying to say. I don't know that you understand what I'm trying to say. And that's okay. You may permaban me if it makes you feel better. I won't hold it against you (or challenge your integrity on the matter). I will, instead, quite promptly get over myself.

Are you going to be consistent, and attack Kurieuo for "questioning the integrity" of other Christians, because of his post here?

Or is it just me that you feel like attacking today?