Evidence for God from Science

edwardmurphy wrote:How about Deliberately Obtuse Day, where social conservatives could sit around pretending not to understand anything, no matter how clearly it's laid out for them? That'd be a hoot.

We do that every day, so why make a special day?

IF there ever was a heterosexual pride day or parade, it would be considered inflammatory and driven by hate - and that is the narrative that the media would push, whether or not most of those partaking in actually wanted anything other than just their "own" day. Unquestionably, many of those marching in gay pride marches are getting off on the fact that their presence and oft-flamboyance are making conservative heterosexuals very uncomfortable - but the media never focuses upon that, except to paint such reactions as bigotry. Fact is, you can't march or use legal tactics to make people who see homosexuality as morally wrong, to change hearts and minds about that - that is, if it is the changing of hearts and minds that they are truly after. And if they go beyond the understandable goals of equal treatment under the law, then they are going to cause a huge backlash.

RickD wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:How about Deliberately Obtuse Day, where social conservatives could sit around pretending not to understand anything, no matter how clearly it's laid out for them? That'd be a hoot.

We do that every day, so why make a special day?

Hey, if people can be gay every day and get a special day...! At least in the US, Australia, Europe and many other countries which aren't founded upon Islam where gays might be thrown off rooftops, beheaded or the like. Oh, that's getting into another issue people get all obtuse about. I'm not saying that Islamic countries are all that way, I mean we like to partner with the Saudis right? Women are free to wear the burka in such countries I hear, quite progressive in that respect. So they must be alright. Sharia is really quite liberating. Saudi also got elected to women's council in the UN, and perhaps I'm just being obtuse here, but I'm assuming they must be great supporters of women's rights! Perhaps there should be an Unknowingly Obtuse Day...

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:You should take a second and think about how bigoted, offensive, and just factually wrong it is to put gay marriage - a loving, committed, consensual relationship between two adults - in the same category as transactional sex, child sexual abuse, and the sexual abuse of animals. You seem like a nice kid, but what you just said was wrong-headed and horrible.

Sorry, what I was getting at was at one time homosexuality was considered just as bad as the things I said above. Now, it's legalized. With that in mind, do you think somehow those will be legalized? I mean now that i think about it, probably not, but knowing the gov't, i wouldnt b surprised. I apologize to the LGBT community.

Hi thatkidakayoungguy:
The lines are drawn where any one of the parties are deprived from their rights or where the rights of one don't infringe on the rights of the other. For insatnce in paedophilia, the right of the child is being abused and /or lacks legal consent, or in the case of the animal legal consent is missing again. In the case of same sex marrige, both legal consent is present and no rights are being infringed upon or abused.

Though some argue against that (quite succesfully from the moral and ethical argument), I have yet to see a solid legal grounding for it.

Do you think LGBT is being forced on us?

It is not a matter what I think, the objective fact is that it is...
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There are a lot of things that have become and are trying to become, the norm in society:
Infanticide - abortion
Children born out of wed-lock/ out of committed relationships ( single parent families or abandoned children)
People living of the state regardless of their ability to sustain themselves
Use of mood and mind altering drugs for recreation ( becoming the norm that is why governments are going away from prevention and trying to route of protection and controlled supply)
Sexual activity with no responsibility for consequences
Sexually transmitted infections and diseases ( the last two are becoming a norm so that is why instead of prevention, governments want to supply protection)
And son on and so forth.
That doesn't make them right, that doesn't make them something to be accepted.

In all honesty, of all the things to take pride in, your sexual orientation is just the stupidest thing.

PaulSacramento wrote:There are a lot of things that have become and are trying to become, the norm in society:
Infanticide - abortion
Children born out of wed-lock/ out of committed relationships ( single parent families or abandoned children)
People living of the state regardless of their ability to sustain themselves
Use of mood and mind altering drugs for recreation ( becoming the norm that is why governments are going away from prevention and trying to route of protection and controlled supply)
Sexual activity with no responsibility for consequences
Sexually transmitted infections and diseases ( the last two are becoming a norm so that is why instead of prevention, governments want to supply protection)
And son on and so forth.
That doesn't make them right, that doesn't make them something to be accepted.

In all honesty, of all the things to take pride in, your sexual orientation is just the stupidest thing.

Sign of the times I guess...

2Ti 3:1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
2Ti 3:2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
2Ti 3:5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power... NASB

Yep...
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You guys sound like every grumpy, old conservative guy in the history of the world...

edwardmurphy wrote:You guys sound like every grumpy, old conservative guy in the history of the world...

edwardmurphy wrote:You guys sound like every grumpy, old conservative guy in the history of the world...

It's funny you say that.
Just this weekend a friend and I were commenting how much we have changed in the last decade to so.
We ere both liberals, heck I voted for the liberal party of Canada when I was in my 20's.
They thing is, the more educated I got, the more I experienced the world, my time serving as a peacekeeper, becoming a husband and a father, reading and learning about BOTH sides of the argument, the more conservative I got.
And same thing with him !
I remember how it happened to my dad.
He was a socialist and , have been raised in Portugal during the fascist regime of Salazar it makes sense, he was very adamant about how much better a socialist view was and as he got older and saw reality he realized that things like socialism only work as an ideal ( that is why it failed everywhere it was set up) because people are a certain way and to deny that is, well, suicidal.
He too become more conservative as he got older.

Thing is, I am NOT a conservative. I am, at best, a libertarian.

That said, I do believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of ANYTHING.
And that same is the same as everyone else, ie: NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGE OR ENTITLEMENT.
That ALL have the same rights, no one has more than anyone else.
That freedom of speech and expression means that ALL have the right to voice their view.
Facts and truth do NOT have political agendas, they are not hurtful and can NOT be denied.
Sticks and stones WILL break your bones and names will NEVER hurt you.
People are responsible for what THEY DO and what THEY SAY and no rules and regulations change that.
Equal rights for women means that they can do and be anything they want BUT THEY are RESPONSIBLE for being that and the consequences of ALL their choices.
That life begins at conception, just like science tells us ( just ask NASA about their definition of life when they look for life on another planet) and that ALL LIFE is to be preserved whenever possible ( not convenient but possible).
I believe in universal health care for all AND that it MUST be the best possible health care possible.
I believe in a well equipped army to PROTECT our country.
I believe that there is a right and a wrong and that it is NOT based on what is politically correct at the time.
I believe in the democratic process of electing our government BUT that people should NEVER vote for the "lesser of two evils", that people MUST have a person worth voting for and I believe that we need political voting reform so that:
If the majority of voters do NOT feel that there is anyone worth voting for that NO ONE is to be elected and that NEW candidates MUST be found.
Voting is the greatest privilege of a free society and that worse way to vote is "lesser of two evils".
I believe that the ends do NOT justify the means and that the MEANS is what lends validity to the end.

edwardmurphy wrote:You guys sound like every grumpy, old conservative guy in the history of the world...

Better than being a grumpy vitriol loving, silencer of free speech, race baiting, thuggery leftist progressive post modernist Marxist!
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PaulSacramento wrote:...Thing is, I am NOT a conservative. I am, at best, a libertarian.

That said, I do believe in treating everyone the same, regardless of ANYTHING.
And that same is the same as everyone else, ie: NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGE OR ENTITLEMENT.
That ALL have the same rights, no one has more than anyone else.
That freedom of speech and expression means that ALL have the right to voice their view.
Facts and truth do NOT have political agendas, they are not hurtful and can NOT be denied.
Sticks and stones WILL break your bones and names will NEVER hurt you.
People are responsible for what THEY DO and what THEY SAY and no rules and regulations change that.
Equal rights for women means that they can do and be anything they want BUT THEY are RESPONSIBLE for being that and the consequences of ALL their choices.
That life begins at conception, just like science tells us ( just ask NASA about their definition of life when they look for life on another planet) and that ALL LIFE is to be preserved whenever possible ( not convenient but possible).
I believe in universal health care for all AND that it MUST be the best possible health care possible.
I believe in a well equipped army to PROTECT our country.
I believe that there is a right and a wrong and that it is NOT based on what is politically correct at the time.
I believe in the democratic process of electing our government BUT that people should NEVER vote for the "lesser of two evils", that people MUST have a person worth voting for and I believe that we need political voting reform so that:
If the majority of voters do NOT feel that there is anyone worth voting for that NO ONE is to be elected and that NEW candidates MUST be found.
Voting is the greatest privilege of a free society and that worse way to vote is "lesser of two evils".
I believe that the ends do NOT justify the means and that the MEANS is what lends validity to the end.

That is conservatism Paul, you stated it well.

I would add

-Objective truth is what matters

-Live responsibly before God and each other

-Putting people into groups and pitting groups against each other by means of revenge, bitterness, envy, class warfare is objectively morally wrong

-Protect children from exploitation and grooming by sexual deviants looking for more victims which lead to this story for a better understanding what I mean here:

Story: 30 years ago a 3 year old boy was asked who would he like to be when he grows up. He replied, "I wanna be like Mommy!" Then he ran over and gave his mother a big bear hug.

Years passed, he grew up, married a marvelous lady and is now a father of three kids. He played football in school. Hunted, fished, hiked, did all the guy things in his life. No, he did not grow up to be like mommy.

However, if the same three year old were to be asked this today, and his response was to be like mommy, the social workers, LGBT activist, governmental workers would ensure he become like mommy never realizing that a 3 year old boy has no idea what Gender Identity is...

Objective truth is that this scenario exemplifies how sexual predictors groom for future victims to exploit...

Wake up...

This leads to the next thing to add,

-Speak out against lies of the left...moral evil, expose it, confront it, defend the kids, the disabled, the fatherless, orphans, widow, elders, and seek justice for the truly oppressed - oppressed by lies, deceit, hate mongering, class warfare, political correctness, etc...

Add more if you like what Conservatives actually believe if you are Conservative that is...
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Here is an amusing article:

dear progressive parents your children are not social experiments

Well said and adds ammo too my last post above and topic of this thread...
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Thankfully that bearded lady in Canada is no more representative of progressives as a whole than you're representative of Christians or conservatives as a whole. You'll never accept that, but you're a fringe crackpot so it doesn't really matter.

Here in Australia the topic is at the forefront; a bill to legalise gay marriage has just been rejected by our Prime Minister. Many of his party leaders disagree with his decision as do a large section of the government. His recommendation is to put to a non binding plebiscite.
It's pointless and a massive waste of tax payers money, to the tune of millions.
Our PM needs to grows some balls as the Australian public has made it clear through obvious public opinion that a gay marriage bill does not need a plebiscite.
I have said previously though to put it to referendum. Let the Australian people decide. As this is an honest reflection of society. But as a binding referendum.
I have looked at several social media news sites, liberal, conservative and in between today and the overwhelming consensus is 'waste of money... Pass the inevitable'
When this is put to public vote I have no doubt that it will be a landslide.

That is why I do not believe by any stretch of the imagination that LGBT is being forced on us.
I will say that a social trend towards a new norm does not equate to morality. Religious or otherwise. Morality is a highly subjective matter in regards to personal conviction. Religiously I agree with the idea of objective morality but I've not seen it successfully practised. Ever. In the political arena. It's almost the ultimate oxy moron.
My personal beliefs on gay marriage is irrelevant and truth be known I'm not sure, I have strong conflicting beliefs. But what I do know is I am a big fan democracy, even with all its flaws.
And Australians believes by majority by which I have no doubt and a plebiscite will illustrate such that gay marriage is welcomed and supported by the people.
So no, I don't feel like it is being forced on me because I have ears and eyes.