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Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:16 am
by RickD
Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:55 am
Philip, I'm going to have to disagree with much of what you said
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...
I'll leave you with this video on false grace by Dr Michael Brown with questions by Sid Roth. Watch it as time permits.
Stu,
It helps if you show Philip why he's wrong. Show him from the text, that his interpretation is wrong. Bombarding people with bible verses that you think go against eternal security, and then just posting a smiley face, and agreeing to disagree, is really not a good way to have a discussion.
It's better to focus on one passage from scripture, until there's an understanding regarding where all sides stand. Then move on to another passage from scripture.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 am
by Philip
Stu, disagreeing on this if fine. But if you are going to make a big deal over your belief then, it makes no sense that you have no evidences in Scripture of such required re-savings ever being stated as needed, actually happening, or being encouraged. Being in sin and disobedience does NOT mean a Christian has lost their salvation. And if that were true and it matters to US - as we see Christians in sin, A) how can you know they are no longer saved? B) And how would your response be any different than it would be to one you KNOW has NEVER been saved? The fact is, you can't know any difference. You can't see into a person's mind or heart. With the point being that your obsession over this isn't warranted. Again, do you believe YOU are responsible for maintaining your own salvation? You couldn't earn it, and yet you think you can maintain it? But the Apostle Paul says Jesus maintains our salvation. And so you can't have any confidence you will enter eternal life - not if it's all up to you!
Truly, this is one of those rabbit trails that some Christians argue tooth and nail over, that the Apostle Paul says we are not to.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:08 am
by Stu
Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:31 am
Stu, disagreeing on this if fine. But if you are going to make a big deal over your belief then, it makes no sense that you have no evidences in Scripture of such required re-savings ever being stated as needed, actually happening, or being encouraged. Being in sin and disobedience does NOT mean a Christian has lost their salvation. And if that were true and it matters to US - as we see Christians in sin, A) how can you know they are no longer saved? B) And how would your response be any different than it would be to one you KNOW has NEVER been saved? The fact is, you can't know any difference. You can't see into a person's mind or heart. With the point being that your obsession over this isn't warranted. Again, do you believe YOU are responsible for maintaining your own salvation? You couldn't earn it, and yet you think you can maintain it? But the Apostle Paul says Jesus maintains our salvation. And so you can't have any confidence you will enter eternal life - not if it's all up to you!
Truly, this is one of those rabbit trails that some Christians argue tooth and nail over, that the Apostle Paul says we are not to.
Look, we've been at this before you and me on this forum and never resolved anything, so I just feel we are going around in circles once again. We are just too far apart and won't agree on pretty well anything so that's why I chose to call it quits. No offence or anything...
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:22 am
by Philip
Stu: Look, we've been at this before you and me on this forum and never resolved anything, so I just feel we are going around in circles once again. We are just too far apart and won't agree on pretty well anything so that's why I chose to call it quits. No offence or anything...
Stu, my point is, you've been on about an issue that has no practical examples or understandings - meaning, from our (Christians') point of view, IF your contention were true, it really wouldn't matter as far as our response being any different - because A) you can't know whether an individual had fallen out of salvation, and B) we should be encouraging ANY Christian we see fallen into sin to come back into obedience. So I don't understand your passion over the issue.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:43 am
by edwardmurphy
As a quick aside, when atheists talk about how God is a terrible communicator this is what we mean. You guys are all devout Christians. You're all completely sincere in your beliefs. And here you all are, espousing diametrically opposed interpretations of the same words from the same sources. And we're not talking about some small potatoes issue, either. You've come to irreconcilably different conclusions about the central theme of your shared religion.
That's just...wow.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:43 am
by RickD
edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:43 am
As a quick aside, when atheists talk about how God is a terrible communicator this is what we mean. You guys are all devout Christians. You're all completely sincere in your beliefs. And here you all are, espousing diametrically opposed interpretations of the same words from the same sources. And we're not talking about some small potatoes issue, either. You've come to irreconcilably different conclusions about the central theme of your shared religion.
That's just...wow.
Ed,
Not sure if you care, but if you actually do, this link may help explain it for you:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.crossw ... ml%3famp=1
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
by PaulSacramento
Fliegender wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:38 pm
RickD wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:20 pm
Don't you realize how cheap a box of condoms is?
Condoms have been known to break. I suspect that the best birth control is his personality.
They fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:44 am
by PaulSacramento
edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:43 am
As a quick aside, when atheists talk about how God is a terrible communicator this is what we mean. You guys are all devout Christians. You're all completely sincere in your beliefs. And here you all are, espousing diametrically opposed interpretations of the same words from the same sources. And we're not talking about some small potatoes issue, either. You've come to irreconcilably different conclusions about the central theme of your shared religion.
That's just...wow.
Two things:
1)There is EXPLICIT doctrine in which the vast majority agree and there is implicit doctrine, which is debated (rightly so)
2) Faith is NOT a dictatorship and open debate is encouraged. CHOICE Ed, Choice is the core of Christianity.
And different doesn't equal contradictory by the way.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:22 am
by RickD
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
Fliegender wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:38 pm
RickD wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:20 pm
Don't you realize how cheap a box of condoms is?
Condoms have been known to break. I suspect that the best birth control is his personality.
They fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
When condoms are used properly, they do not fail 97% of the time.
Where on earth did you get that statistic?
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:33 am
by Fliegender
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
[Condoms] fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
Are you speaking from experience?
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:18 pm
by RickD
Fliegender wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:33 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
[Condoms] fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
Are you speaking from experience?
According to
this site, condoms have a 98% success rate for avoiding pregnancy, when used correctly.
So maybe English speaking Canadians are even dumber than the French speaking Canadians?
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:58 pm
by Fliegender
RickD wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:18 pm
Fliegender wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:33 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:41 am
[Condoms] fail 97% of the time and that is when you use them PROPERLY.
Are you speaking from experience?
According to
this site, condoms have a 98% success rate for avoiding pregnancy, when used correctly.
So maybe English speaking Canadians are even dumber than the French speaking Canadians?
There you go with your Canadian stuff again! Maybe Mr Sacramento just has a really big...uh...drive shaft on his pickup truck or whatever they drive up there.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:14 pm
by Nessa
RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:16 am
Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:55 am
Philip, I'm going to have to disagree with much of what you said
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...
I'll leave you with this video on false grace by Dr Michael Brown with questions by Sid Roth. Watch it as time permits.
Stu,
It helps if you show Philip why he's wrong. Show him from the text, that his interpretation is wrong. Bombarding people with bible verses that you think go against eternal security, and then just posting a smiley face, and agreeing to disagree, is really not a good way to have a discussion.
It's better to focus on one passage from scripture, until there's an understanding regarding where all sides stand. Then move on to another passage from scripture.
You are sounding like the voice of reason..... Who are you?
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:28 pm
by RickD
Nessa wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:14 pm
RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:16 am
Stu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:55 am
Philip, I'm going to have to disagree with much of what you said
I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one...
I'll leave you with this video on false grace by Dr Michael Brown with questions by Sid Roth. Watch it as time permits.
Stu,
It helps if you show Philip why he's wrong. Show him from the text, that his interpretation is wrong. Bombarding people with bible verses that you think go against eternal security, and then just posting a smiley face, and agreeing to disagree, is really not a good way to have a discussion.
It's better to focus on one passage from scripture, until there's an understanding regarding where all sides stand. Then move on to another passage from scripture.
You are sounding like the voice of reason..... Who are you?
Maybe you can explain that to Stu. Apparently, he's allergic to reason.
Re: This can't be good!
Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:58 am
by Philip
How the heck did this go from my silly post about AOC and Teddy Boy, to a debate over eternal security? I suggest a new thread under an appropriate section.