Evidence for God from Science

Fliegender wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:41 pm A dumb discussion if there ever was one. There are readily available preliminary studies of this virus available on the web for those who won’t stick their head in the sand. The studies are from the U.K....a socialist nation to American ideologues so maybe these studies are nothing but socialist jumbo jumbo...



...gawd, you guys are hoodwinked by your own propaganda machine! Meanwhile, the USA registers 60,000+ new cases of COVID-19 per day. This is over 25% of all new cases worldwide.

I enjoy watching The Donald’s disciples explain all of this away. It’s entertaining!

This kinda puts a little monkey wrench in your narrative, doesn’t it Fliegender?

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavi ... lts-report

So the report overstates the percentage of positive tests? I'll grant you that that's a pretty stupid mistake, but it doesn't really change anything. Last I heard testing was up about 35% and infection rates are up about 150%. That's a major outbreak. I haven't seen anything claiming that tests were coming back 90-something percent positive, but the 30% number I've seen in Miami-Dade is a full-on catastrophe.

I appreciate your tendency toward skepticism, but in this instance I think it's clear that we're in a major crisis. We flattened the curve, wrecking the economy in the process, and then we reopened too soon. Now we're staring at the biggest disaster in modern American history, the President is pretending that everything is fine, and we have no idea what to do.

Oh well. There's no way anyone could have ever seen this coming...

Ed wrote:
So the report overstates the percentage of positive tests? I'll grant you that that's a pretty stupid mistake, but it doesn't really change anything.

Overstates? That’s an understatement!

Some testing sites didn’t report ANY negative results! Still think that doesn’t change anything?

Last I heard testing was up about 35% and infection rates are up about 150%.

Sure. When there are no negative test results in some places, I could see how the infection rates would go way up.

I haven't seen anything claiming that tests were coming back 90-something percent positive, but the 30% number I've seen in Miami-Dade is a full-on catastrophe.

Even if the 30% is accurate, how is that a catastrophe? How many of those people are sick, or are even having symptoms?

I appreciate your tendency toward skepticism, but in this instance I think it's clear that we're in a major crisis.

Tendency towards skepticism? Seriously? The numbers are being exaggerated. People are being admitted to my hospital and are being listed as having coronavirus, even though it could be any coronavirus, not necessarily Covid 19. And causes of death are listed as Covid 19, when there’s no differentiation between those dying with the virus, and those dying from the virus. People are inflating the numbers for financial gain, and you “appreciate my skepticism”?

Ed: We flattened the curve, wrecking the economy in the process, and then we reopened too soon.

No, I don't think sustaining the killing of jobs and income would have been wise at all! It wasn't so much a matter that we re-opened to soon, but more one of HOW we did it. Because people are foolish and careless - they thought, it was mostly over and just wanted to get back to how things were before. And so they didn't practice common-sense safety measures! Because IF people had been far-more careful, I don't think we'd see near the numbers of infections and deaths. Typically, the younger and more stubborn people are, the more risk they pose for us all! But a prudent person's caution seems like paranoia to those who are very cynical about there being any significant risk.

Fair enough. "Too soon" is imprecise. We opened before we'd done any of the things that we needed to do in order to open safely. We flattened the curve and declared victory.

Think about it - if there's really nothing to worry about and yet one is prudently cautious - well, no big deal, right - you've hurt yourself nor anyone else. But if there IS significant danger and one is totally wrong to discount it - well, it very well could be a VERY big deal, to oneself and countless others.

Philip wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 am Think about it - if there's really nothing to worry about and yet one is prudently cautious - well, no big deal, right - you've hurt yourself nor anyone else. But if there IS significant danger and one is totally wrong to discount it - well, it very well could be a VERY big deal, to oneself and countless others.

Exactly!...

With all the unknowns surrounding the Covid pandemic there is absolutely no harm in taking reasonable precautions such as masking up, social distancing, and washing hands frequently.

On the other hand we have already seen the disastrous results that occur when we take direction from those who claim 'its a hoax', 'its no worse than the flu', 'don't worry, it'll just disappear', etc.
I am very skeptical about any Covid-19 information coming from sources that have been responsible for perpetuating that kind of misinformation about the Covid pandemic... including Fox.

I'l take the recommendations of Dr. Anthony Fauci (Director of the National Institute of Allergy and infectious Diseases) on Covid over information about Covid-19 from Trump and his misinformation machine any day.

Philip wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 am Think about it - if there's really nothing to worry about and yet one is prudently cautious - well, no big deal, right - you've hurt yourself nor anyone else. But if there IS significant danger and one is totally wrong to discount it - well, it very well could be a VERY big deal, to oneself and countless others.

You'd think it'd be a no brainer, but this is Trump's America...

BTW, it's a good article and the video is a must-see trainwreck, but if you're pressed for time here's the executive summary:

Palm Beach County held a public hearing on mandating masks in public, they were berated by a long series of crazy people, and the county commissioners eventually had to retreat behind a security door to escape a crowd that charged the dias and tried to place them under citizen's arrest.

You can't make this stuff up.

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:56 am

Philip wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 am Think about it - if there's really nothing to worry about and yet one is prudently cautious - well, no big deal, right - you've hurt yourself nor anyone else. But if there IS significant danger and one is totally wrong to discount it - well, it very well could be a VERY big deal, to oneself and countless others.

You'd think it'd be a no brainer, but this is Trump's America...

BTW, it's a good article and the video is a must-see trainwreck, but if you're pressed for time here's the executive summary:

Palm Beach County held a public hearing on mandating masks in public, they were berated by a long series of crazy people, and the county commissioners eventually had to retreat behind a security door to escape a crowd that charged the dias and tried to place them under citizen's arrest.

You can't make this stuff up.

I think I saw some clips somewhere from this public hearing.

My response to some of the nonsense spewed at this meeting was...
"Have you even read the Bible?"
"Do you know what the Bible actually says about infectious diseases, social distancing, and face coverings?"

I believe it was news about this particular hearing that prompted me to express my (non humorous) thoughts regarding infectious diseases in the Bible earlier in this thread.

DBowling wrote:
I'l take the recommendations of Dr. Anthony Fauci (Director of the National Institute of Allergy and infectious Diseases) on Covid over information about Covid-19 from Trump and his misinformation machine any day.

Was this the same Dr. Fauci, the expert, that said, about 4months ago:

Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.

So, your expert could’ve cost thousands of lives by saying “people should not be walking around with masks”.

And I don’t want to hear, “we have learned a lot in 4 months, blah, blah, blah...”

He should’ve said that until we know for sure, to be safe, we can wear masks.

So, you can listen to your expert...

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:56 am

Philip wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:28 am Think about it - if there's really nothing to worry about and yet one is prudently cautious - well, no big deal, right - you've hurt yourself nor anyone else. But if there IS significant danger and one is totally wrong to discount it - well, it very well could be a VERY big deal, to oneself and countless others.

You'd think it'd be a no brainer, but this is Trump's America...

BTW, it's a good article and the video is a must-see trainwreck, but if you're pressed for time here's the executive summary:

Palm Beach County held a public hearing on mandating masks in public, they were berated by a long series of crazy people, and the county commissioners eventually had to retreat behind a security door to escape a crowd that charged the dias and tried to place them under citizen's arrest.

You can't make this stuff up.

I read the article. There’s always going to be those who are so far out there with their beliefs. It’s no different than anything else. Just like the loonies on the other side who want to completely shut down everything.

There’s always going to be the random idiots who have Covid 19 parties, because they think it’s a hoax. And there will always be the idiots on the other end, who want everyone to be forced by gunpoint, to wear masks.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:59 pm

Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.

So, your expert could’ve cost thousands of lives by saying “people should not be walking around with masks”.

Context matters. When he said that there was a massive PPE shortage. Nurses were sewing their own maks in their staff lounges. Fauci didn't say not to wear masks, he said that in light of the massive shortage we needed to save them for the frontline workers.

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:10 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:59 pm

Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.

So, your expert could’ve cost thousands of lives by saying “people should not be walking around with masks”.

Context matters. When he said that there was a massive PPE shortage. Nurses were sewing their own maks in their staff lounges. Fauci didn't say not to wear masks, he said that in light of the massive shortage we needed to save them for the frontline workers.

“Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”

He could’ve said something other than what he actually said. We got the same bs here at work. Near the beginning of all of this, one of the maintenance guys I work with had to fix something in the ER waiting room. The room was full of patients who were coughing up a storm, like many patients do who are sick. He decided to wear a mask while he was working, to help protect himself. He was called into the maintenance directors office, and berated for wearing a mask. The director said, “there’s no reason that any of us should be wearing a mask in the hospital.” A week later, it was mandated that all hospital employees must wear a mask.

By Fauci saying that people should not be wearing masks, the “expert” gave a false idea that we didn’t need a mask. It was wrong, and if one is using the standard that masks should be worn now, then masks should’ve been worn then.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm“Right now in the United States people should not be walking around with masks … You should think of healthcare providers who are needing them and the people who are ill.”

Same quote, different emphasis. The second part of the quote explains and contextualizes the first part.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pmBy Fauci saying that people should not be wearing masks, the “expert” gave a false idea that we didn’t need a mask. It was wrong...

We didn't have any masks! You can't just ignore that crucial piece of information! There was a nationwide shortage. People were hoarding them, like they hoarded all the hand sanitizer, hand soap, toilet paper, and paper towels. Fauci was prioritizing, based on the situation and the available resources - save the masks for the first responders, nurses, and doctors, and everybody else go home, hunker down, and wait it out.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:21 pm...and if one is using the standard that masks should be worn now, then masks should’ve been worn then.

Then there was a PPE shortage and we were self-quarantining. Now supply has caught up with demand, masks are easy to obtain, and we've stopped quarantining. The situations are different.