Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:46 am I see. Guess it depends upon the hospital: https://www.news-press.com/story/news/c ... 488025002/

Least RFK, Jr. has some support in this issue, LOL: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -harm.html

If you haven’t noticed, there’s a huge push for this vaccine in the media, and by our government. Part of that push is that they’re relentless in trying to convince people that the Covid vaccines are safe and effective. The reason why they’re trying to convince people so much, is because a lot of people aren’t buying the idea that the vaccines are safe and effective.

And also part of this push is labeling anyone who speaks out against it as crazy, conspiracy, anti vaxxer nutjobs. And by showing that the lunatic Farrakhan is “anti Covid vaccines”, it paints a picture that all who are skeptical of the Covid vaccines are crazy.

Buzadar wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:52 am Im terrified about it

Terrified about what?

Here is the FDA Briefing Document for the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine.
https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download

The FDA’s vaccine advisory committee is slated to meet December 17 to vote on recommending authorization of the Moderna vaccine.

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:17 pm Let’s see where you think Kennedy is wrong.

Kennedy has no medical credentials or training. So I will trust the conclusions of qualified medical professionals at the NIH, CDC, and FDA over an unqualified anti-vaccine activist any day.

I have posted links about vaccines in general and the covid-19 vaccine in particular from trained medical professionals who actually know what they are talking about.
If you are going to attack vaccines embraced by medical professionals all over the US (and the world) that will save millions of human lives then I think the burden of proof is on you to tell me where you think the links I posted are factually incorrect.

DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:07 am

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:17 pm Let’s see where you think Kennedy is wrong.

Kennedy has no medical credentials or training. So I will trust the conclusions of qualified medical professionals at the NIH, CDC, and FDA over an unqualified anti-vaccine activist any day.

I have posted links about vaccines in general and the covid-19 vaccine in particular from trained medical professionals who actually know what they are talking about.
If you are going to attack vaccines embraced by medical professionals all over the US (and the world) that will save millions of human lives then I think the burden of proof is on you to tell me where you think the links I posted are factually incorrect.

He has no medical credentials or training, so he can’t be trusted? That’s a logical fallacy.

You wrote:

He has been spreading misinformation regarding vaccines for a number of years.

I simply asked for you to show how he’s spreading misinformation in the videos I posted.

You’re usually good at backing your assertions.

Edit:
As far as the onus being on me, what SPECIFIC assertion did I say, that you feel I need to back up?

Vice President Mike Pence and Surgeon General Jerome Adams received Covid Vaccines today
Pence gets COVID-19 vaccine to show it's 'safe and effective'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pence- ... us-vaccine

Here is a link that fact checks a number of misleading claims about the Covid Vaccine
https://fullfact.org/health/pfizer-vaccine-peg-ade/

Does anyone remember the 1988 movie, “They Live”?

Look at the Obey signs behind Pence.

Come on Christians, use your discernment!

Nothing about this video is troubling?

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:08 am Come on Christians, use your discernment!

And a critical component of discernment is knowing and communicating the TRUTH!!!!!

Why is it so important for Americans (and the rest of the world too for that matter) to get vaccinated against Covid?

1. Currently over three thousand Americans per day are DYING from Covid. That's the same number of human beings that died in the 911 Terrorist attacks EVERY DAY.
2. In order to stop Americans from dying from Covid we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
3. In order to stop wearing masks we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
4. in order to stop social distancing we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
5. In order to reach 'herd immunity' in our country we need to vaccinate 70-80% of the population of our country. (The insane 'let her rip' approach to herd immunity has been a disastrous failure in Sweden).

The sooner we get 70-80% of the American population vaccinated
- the sooner Americans will stop DYING from covid
- the sooner Americans can stop wearing masks
- the sooner Americans can stop social distancing
- the sooner Americans can go back to work
- the sooner the American economy can recover

In short, the sooner 70-80% of Americans get vaccinated, the sooner that American life can get back "to normal".
That's why its so important for as many Americans as possible to get vaccinated against covid as soon as possible.

At some point, one must decide whether distrust of what is possibly negative with the Covid vaccines, per the hurry to develop them / that the government is pushing it, etc. vs. the very real threat of what might happen if you get it. The concerns aren't unwarranted, but it is distrust of the government and the rush to make it available that are mostly driving this - certainly not known facts that would show it riskier to get it than not. And one has to ask themself what level of assurance do they actually need before making a decision. Because many relatively healthy people that have died from this is no small number - even if, percentage-wise, they make up a much smaller percentage. And IF one gets it, how many vulnerable people might you infect before becoming aware of you have it? This seems to be the anti-vaxxer movement on steroids, because I'm not seeing much more than speculation, distrust and fear being used as supposed facts against it. And if it seems to be working well with few people experiencing any negatives, THEN how long would one hold out due to fears of uncertainty?

I've personally been through a catastrophic, mysterious illness that was killing me - and I, being the control freak that I am, was going nuts over whose advice to take, per the options presented. And what I realized is, I had to trust the advice I had (which wasn't a lot), and had to do so with great financial cost. So, I decided to begin treatment. And mostly, I had to make my decision and trust God to work it out for my best interests.

BTW, I got a call yesterday that my SIL, who was supposed to come for Christmas dinner, has it.

DBowling wrote:
And a critical component of discernment is knowing and communicating the TRUTH!!!!!

Then why, in your very next sentence, did you post something that is NOT TRUE?

You said:

Currently over three thousand Americans per day are DYING from Covid.

Dying FROM Covid, or dying WITH Covid? The huge majority of people who have Covid and die with the sickness, have had underlying conditions that according to experts, have caused the people to experience more severe symptoms or death.

2. In order to stop Americans from dying from Covid we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
3. In order to stop wearing masks we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
4. in order to stop social distancing we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
5. In order to reach 'herd immunity' in our country we need to vaccinate 70-80% of the population of our country. (The insane 'let her rip' approach to herd immunity has been a disastrous failure in Sweden).

Let’s assume this is true. What happens if only 50% get the vaccine? What’s the next step? Forced vaccinations? Some kind of mark to show who has been vaccinated, and those who haven’t, will be severely restricted(See Andrew Yang https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnew ... arcode.amp)? (starting to sound a little like the mark?)

The sooner we get 70-80% of the American population vaccinated
- the sooner Americans will stop DYING from covid

It’s too late. America is too fat, lazy, and unhealthy. The very people who make up the majority of those that die WITH Covid, are the same unhealthy people who will be adversely affected by vaccines.

Why don’t we hear anyone promoting how to keep a healthy immune system?

Philip wrote:
At some point, one must decide whether distrust of what is possibly negative with the Covid vaccines, per the hurry to develop them / that the government is pushing it, etc. vs. the very real threat of what might happen if you get it. The concerns aren't unwarranted, but it is distrust of the government and the rush to make it available that are mostly driving this - certainly not known facts that would show it riskier to get it than not.

Yes. We all have to weigh the pros and cons. The one known fact that I have, is that I have the antibodies for the Covid virus, and I never had any symptoms. So putting the lack of trust in the govt aside, why on earth would I get a vaccine that I have absolutely no idea what it will do to me, when I know the virus did nothing to me? There’s no anti vax fear involved at all. It’s simple logic. Immune system that worked vs man made vaccine with no possibility of knowing what it will do to me.

I've personally been through a catastrophic, mysterious illness that was killing me - and I, being the control freak that I am, was going nuts over whose advice to take, per the options presented. And what I realized is, I had to trust the advice I had (which wasn't a lot), and had to do so with great financial cost. So, I decided to begin treatment. And mostly, I had to make my decision and trust God to work it out for my best interests.

So, you know that you have autoimmune issues. If you can live with the decision to get the vaccine, even after experts say that it won’t prevent you from getting the virus, and not knowing if your autoimmune issues would cause a reaction, then that’s what you have to live with. You’ve made it this long without a vaccine, right?

BTW, I got a call yesterday that my SIL, who was supposed to come for Christmas dinner, has it.

“Mask up”. Practice “social distancing”. That’s what they keep telling you, so you’ll be ok.

But seriously, isn’t she going to stay home?

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:20 am

DBowling wrote:
And a critical component of discernment is knowing and communicating the TRUTH!!!!!

Then why, in your very next sentence, did you post something that is NOT TRUE?

I didn't...
But this is precisely why I want to focus on the truth regarding covid instead of getting sucked into argumentation that muddies the water instead of shedding light.

2. In order to stop Americans from dying from Covid we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
3. In order to stop wearing masks we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
4. in order to stop social distancing we need to reach 'herd immunity' in our country.
5. In order to reach 'herd immunity' in our country we need to vaccinate 70-80% of the population of our country. (The insane 'let her rip' approach to herd immunity has been a disastrous failure in Sweden).

Let’s assume this is true. What happens if only 50% get the vaccine?

Then a lot more people will die needlessly, we will continue to mask up and social distance, and the economy won't recover... but at least 50% of the population will be safe.

This is why it is so important to tell people the TRUTH about the covid vaccines, and for leaders like the Vice President and the Surgeon General to provide a good example for Americans.
Using education and good leadership to demonstrate that covid vaccines are safe and effective are the best ways to convince Americans to do the right thing for themselves and those around them.
If enough people know the right thing to do and do it, then we should be able to get 70-80% of the American population vaccinated.
And I am hopefully optimistic that truth will prevail... I mean if Trump and Biden can actually agree on something, then that is a huuuuuuuge step.

Why don’t we hear anyone promoting how to keep a healthy immune system?

I'm all for promoting a healthy immune system!

And I would think that the same people promoting a healthy immune system (to save human lives) should also be promoting the the covid vaccine (which also saves human lives).
This is not either/or... This is both/and...

RickD wrote:
Let’s assume this is true. What happens if only 50% get the vaccine?

DBowling responded:
Then a lot more people will die needlessly, we will continue to mask up and social distance, and the economy won't recover... but at least 50% of the population will be safe.

Wait?!?! What?!?!
The experts that you’re putting your trust in, are saying that even after getting the vaccine, people still need to wear masks, social distance, wash hands, etc. because the vaccine doesn’t bring immunity. Yet you’re going against your experts, and you’re saying that if 50% get the vaccine, “at least 50% of the population will be safe.”

If you really believe those who get the vaccine will be safe, why on earth are you pushing for people who don’t want it, to get the vaccine?

Kinda the same argument we have with masks. If masks and social distancing work, and you wear your mask and stay away from me, why do I need a mask if I’m healthy or even asymptomatic for Covid?

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:54 pm If you really believe those who get the vaccine will be safe, why on earth are you pushing for people who don’t want it, to get the vaccine?

First, I am pro-life. I care about the lives of others, not just my own.
I think it is tragic for anyone to die needlessly.
Second, 'herd immunity' is about a whole lot more than just me, it is about the 'herd'.
And it won't be safe for our American society to return to normal until we have collectively reached 'herd immunity'.

Here is a quick overview of herd immunity
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20486808

Kinda the same argument we have with masks. If masks and social distancing work, and you wear your mask and stay away from me, why do I need a mask if I’m healthy or even asymptomatic for Covid?

My mask protects me somewhat from others...
But more importantly, my mask is even more effective at protecting others from me.

The most common spreaders of covid today are 'healthy' 'asymptomatic' people. And tens of thousands of people are needlessly dead today because 'healthy' 'asymptomatic' people refused to wear masks and social distance during the pandemic.
This is a prime example where misinformation about covid has already had tragic and deadly consequences.

We don't need more misinformation about covid vaccines to obstruct herd immunity and lead to even more tragic and preventable deaths.