Is being Gay really that bad?

Shirtless · Post by **Shirtless** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:58 pm

Okay, you guys have established that you love the sinner and hate the sin, and that a gay act is no greater a sin than others,

but you've missed the most important step: why do you believe it's a sin in the first place? I mean, pretend I grew up alone on a dessert island, and though I'm fluent in English, I have no knowledge of your culture at all. Why is the New Covenent anti-gay-sex?

AttentionKMartShoppers · Thu May 05, 2005 9:03 pm

In the beginning God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve...because God said so, is that not enough? Not for Adam and Eve either...

Shirtless · Post by **Shirtless** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:19 pm

Kmart, we may both be under usernames that brand us of being immature, but we're both reasonable people here. You know that whether you're right or wrong, you can't change people's minds by giving quickie soundbytes. Ever been to Glenn Miller's Christian Thinktank website? He gives dignity and respect to every question that he's asked. You and I both know, that saying God started humans off with one man and one woman, doesn't mean he hates gay sex. That's argument by assumption; there's no assuming when it comes to God.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Thu May 05, 2005 9:25 pm

Um...that's not why He hates it, no, but it's why it's wrong, God said so, that's why everything that is wrong IS wrong.

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:29 pm

Shirtless wrote:But you've missed the most important step: why do you believe it's a sin in the first place? I mean, pretend I grew up alone on a dessert island, and though I'm fluent in English, I have no knowledge of your culture at all. Why is the New Covenent anti-gay-sex?

I just assumed you've been given these many times, but maybe not. I'll refrain from bolding and trust you to read the whole passage.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26-27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

(though I don't feel the OT holds the same authority on morality as the NT, where they agree it only adds to strength of the argument)
Leviticus 18:22-23
'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
" 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

So then Shirtless, simply read those passages and honestly answer whether homosexuality is agianst God's will or not. Clearly it is.

I agree with what Dan is saying. THere are some men attracted to other men - this is clear. And that is not a sin in and of itself. The sin is giving into the temptation. We're all tempted by sin in different ways. For most married people in the area of sex it's the temptation of adultery, and though that would be pleasurable it's obviously a sin and we musn't give into that temptation. I see homosexuality as no different than adultery.

Shirtless · Post by **Shirtless** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:57 pm

Felgar wrote:So then Shirtless, simply read those passages and honestly answer whether homosexuality is agianst God's will or not. Clearly it is.

Felgar, I want to, I really do. I've been defending all kinds of radical positions on this board, but I'm just trying to say that it's the accusers who need to give commentary on these passages, not the accused (I'm not gay BTW). The least that could be done, is that the defense arguments that these passages do not say that gay sex is a sin, be looked into and given cross-exam. If you really want only me to answer your questions, I guess I'm up for it

, but I have a 5-6 page term paper, late homework, and much studying to get done by Saturday...but after that it's all gravy 'til the Fall!

Felgar · Post by **Felgar** » Thu May 05, 2005 10:25 pm

Shirtless wrote:Felgar, I want to, I really do. I've been defending all kinds of radical positions on this board, but I'm just trying to say that it's the accusers who need to give commentary on these passages, not the accused (I'm not gay BTW).

Hey, no need to respond to me - the record is clearly written as for as I'm concerned. The counter arguments are something you need to think about for yourself, not for my benefit. But since you and I have already had our discussions about trusting the Bible, I'm not sure you're ready to be convinced at this time.

But recall that you asked the question why we believe what we believe, and there's the answer.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:42 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Yeah, good job mentioning that...should have myself, but...didn't think of it Also, homosexuality (the act) is not a bigger sin than anything else. All sins are the same-they are all things that are against God's nature. So, just because we may be more aggressive on this one, an active homosexual is no worse than a guy who constantly swears, or a liar...we're all on the same level.

All sins are not the same. Cussing out God or murder is worse than lying or stealing a candy.

bizzt · Post by **bizzt** » Fri May 06, 2005 7:25 am

ochotseat wrote:
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Yeah, good job mentioning that...should have myself, but...didn't think of it Also, homosexuality (the act) is not a bigger sin than anything else. All sins are the same-they are all things that are against God's nature. So, just because we may be more aggressive on this one, an active homosexual is no worse than a guy who constantly swears, or a liar...we're all on the same level.
All sins are not the same. Cussing out God or murder is worse than lying or stealing a candy.

YET all Sins do the same with our relationship with God!

AttentionKMartShoppers · Fri May 06, 2005 8:40 pm

ochotseat wrote:
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Yeah, good job mentioning that...should have myself, but...didn't think of it Also, homosexuality (the act) is not a bigger sin than anything else. All sins are the same-they are all things that are against God's nature. So, just because we may be more aggressive on this one, an active homosexual is no worse than a guy who constantly swears, or a liar...we're all on the same level.
All sins are not the same. Cussing out God or murder is worse than lying or stealing a candy.

Even though man would like to live in a grey world, God sees the world as black and white-there is no degree of bad or sin. Sin is sin is sin. It's all on the same level...except the unpardonable sin, blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I'm not sure why.

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:28 am

Shirtless wrote:Okay, you guys have established that you love the sinner and hate the sin, and that a gay act is no greater a sin than others,

but you've missed the most important step: why do you believe it's a sin in the first place? I mean, pretend I grew up alone on a dessert island, and though I'm fluent in English, I have no knowledge of your culture at all. Why is the New Covenent anti-gay-sex?

If there were no sinner, there would be no sin.

I've explained why it's socially, biologically, and religiously wrong. If Mowgli committed rape or theft, is that excusable?

ochotseat · Post by **ochotseat** » Sat May 07, 2005 12:28 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:
ochotseat wrote:
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Yeah, good job mentioning that...should have myself, but...didn't think of it Also, homosexuality (the act) is not a bigger sin than anything else. All sins are the same-they are all things that are against God's nature. So, just because we may be more aggressive on this one, an active homosexual is no worse than a guy who constantly swears, or a liar...we're all on the same level.
All sins are not the same. Cussing out God or murder is worse than lying or stealing a candy.
Even though man would like to live in a grey world, God sees the world as black and white-there is no degree of bad or sin. Sin is sin is sin. It's all on the same level...except the unpardonable sin, blaspheming the Holy Spirit, and I'm not sure why.

Where does it say in the Bible that all sins are on par?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:03 am

Read these articles, then you'll realise that what you are saying probably isn't true.
http://web4health.info/en/answers/sex-homo-causes.htm
http://www.pflagphoenix.org/education/h ... cause.html
http://familydoctor.org/739.xml

If it is indeed genetic, then there is nothing you can do about it. So therefore, God has condemed you to being homosexual? That doesn't sound very fair now does it?
If they are purely social factors, then something probably could be done about it. Personally, i think it's probably a mix like most of the articles say. If there really is a homosexual gene, then how do you expect these people to stop being what they are? That's like trying to change your entire genetic coding. Can't be done im afraid

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:07 am

Cooljohng wrote:Read these articles, then you'll realise that what you are saying probably isn't true.
http://web4health.info/en/answers/sex-homo-causes.htm
http://www.pflagphoenix.org/education/h ... cause.html
http://familydoctor.org/739.xml

If it is indeed genetic, then there is nothing you can do about it. So therefore, God has condemed you to being homosexual? That doesn't sound very fair now does it?
If they are purely social factors, then something probably could be done about it. Personally, i think it's probably a mix like most of the articles say. If there really is a homosexual gene, then how do you expect these people to stop being what they are? That's like trying to change your entire genetic coding. Can't be done im afraid

You can be homosexual and saved! Man, I hate repeating this over and over and over. Everyone has sin! Everyone! Homsexuality is just one sin some people have to struggle against. Other people are born with other sins they have to fight! Homosexuality isn't any different from any other sin.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:09 am

but what if its genetic. Why would God give you a sin from birth? for no reason??