Evidence for God from Science

I dont make sense? You are the one talking in confusing riddles! Tree of Life? Even Jesus doesn't know what you're talking about!

When I say that 'Good' remains the same I mean the way in which Society perceives those acts that are bad will always stay the same. We derive our ideals of what is Good from a VARIETY of sources and the Bible does have some impact on it but are you suggesting that it has TOTAL impact? This is not true.

If we were to live by the morals of the Bible to the extreme then we would encourage the rape of our daughters as opposed to the sexual activity of homosexuals as can be seen in Sodom and Gomorrah. This is absurd by todays standards!

Stealing is a bad act, it always has been and will always be considered as wrong. What you CAN argue is that extreme situations justify extreme measures eg.- You are so poor that you cannot afford food so you steal. The act of stealing will ALWAYS be seen as wrong but is justified in this sense.

Murder on the other hand IS wrong. I haven't read the Bible completely (that old testament is a meaty tome) but I know the ten commandments and im pretty sure that one of them goes along the lines of 'Though Shall Not Kill.'

I never said prostitutes were BAD

You implied that they couldn't be good parents. They meaning the entire population of prostitutes this is a form of generalizing. I never said you said they were bad I said that you judge them and thats what you are doing by bundling them all together, judging hundreds of different women as one person. It's ridiculous.

When I went into first person before pretending to be you I was being sarcastic.

Homosexuals have the spirit of lust. They define themselves by their sexual activity. I'm "gay" ... I'm a punk rocker ... I'm a Christian ... I'm hip-hop ... I'm goth. People are always looking for an "identity."

I can't believe I'm reading this! This sort of inane babble belongs on a web forum for the KKK. Homosexuals do not not label themselves by their sexual activity this is the label that SOCIETY BRANDS THEM WITH. Do you really think that all homosexuals enjoy being singled out as 'gay'? Believe me they dont. Many of them hate the labels as do those who are dubbed 'punk-rockers' or 'christians'. Maybe you should go to a Gay Rights rally or something because you have NO IDEA at all what you are talking about.

You've got to be kidding me. Somebody should tell Hitler and Stalin that murder is evil. See what they tell you when they strip you naked, march you into a field and blow your brains out.

Yes but look at how the majority of society judges these two individuals? They are maniacs, proving that the idea of what it is to be Good remains constant through out time with slight variations and hiccups. Hitler's reign is an example where the idea of Good became lost but it made us better as a result.

Oh and to every Homophobic Christian out there:

Give up, you lost on this battle. Homosexuals are accepted now, you want to see proof? Tune into Queer Eye for a Straight Guy or Queer as Folk. If God really does exist I'm pretty sure he's shaking his head going "What was I thinking? I mean homosexuality isn't that bad."...No wait he wouldn't say that because God wouldn't make this mistake, he would be smiting the fool who misinterpreted his Word.

Do you really think that all homosexuals enjoy being singled out as 'gay'? Believe me they dont.

Yeah, that's why we have a yearly Gay Pride parade in this city ... it's huge. I have alot of gay friends, believe it or not. And believe me ... it's cool to be gay nowadays. It's cool to be a little ... "edgy" ... like, oh I go to college but I can't get money for book so I do a little hooking on the side. Nothing wrong with it. I insist on condoms ..." Nobody stands for anything anymore. You, Darwin, are happy to just drift along with society ... as long as the majority say it's ok. This is how the Nazis came to power. This is how the KKK got away with what it did ... everything seemed so .... OK, so normal.

It's funny ... when it comes to stealing and murder with you, it's wrong. Stealing and murder is basically a type of lust. "I don't have it, I'm angry, so someone will have to pay." But prostitution and homosexual sex ... is sacred ... we are free to let our lust reign on any willing victim.

I never said you said they were bad I said that you judge them and thats what you are doing by bundling them all together, judging hundreds of different women as one person. It's ridiculous.

One more time ... I am not judging THEM ... I am looking at what they do and deciding for myself how I feel about it according to what I have seen it do to their lives and the lives of their children. But you seem to be saying that prostitution is good ... I say it is not. I am concerned for the women that work the streets. You must be a man, Darwin.

the Bible does have some impact on it but are you suggesting that it has TOTAL impact? This is not true.

Did I even suggest this? NO. You put alot of words into people's mouths and talk about painting everyone with the same brush ... YOU PAINT EVERY CHRISTIAN THE SAME. You don't even know how I feel about the bible.

Murder on the other hand IS wrong. I haven't read the Bible completely (that old testament is a meaty tome) but I know the ten commandments and im pretty sure that one of them goes along the lines of 'Though Shall Not Kill.'

Maybe you should read the Old Testament. Let me clue you in, Darwin ... "God" supposedly had His people slaughtering men women and children all the time, if they were in the way of His will for His people and if he thought they practiced ... "evil" things.

Give up, you lost on this battle. Homosexuals are accepted now, you want to see proof? Tune into Queer Eye for a Straight Guy or Queer as Folk.

LOL ... of course! If Hollyweird says it's OK, then it must be OK ... how we worship our TV, the true GOD who brainwashes and stupifies Amerika.

From Darwin Rocks:
Yes but look at how the majority of society judges these two individuals? They are maniacs, proving that the idea of what it is to be Good remains constant through out time with slight variations and hiccups. Hitler's reign is an example where the idea of Good became lost but it made us better as a result.


Better in whose opinion? Yours? And stop appealing to the majority. Most of the world thought beating your slaves to death was acceptable in ancient times. Why are your moral convictions good and theirs bad? Why are Stalin and Hitler "evil"? You'll never convince everybody that they are, because people's interpretation of Good and Evil is not the same for everybody. One who lives by Evolution might think that allowing weak people to survive is evil because it destroys our gene pool. Why would your OPINION that such lines of thought are evil be above his?

i mean non-judgemental, open-hearted. most christians do not have this...

yep, and you're one of them. when you learn to practice what Jesus taught, you'll be alot less confused.

but, i respect you for striving for these ideals. it could just be that you are truly confused and do not understand your error.

still, like i said, everyone is flawed; and, perfection, though we must strive for it, will always be out of reach.

Why are your moral convictions good and theirs bad? Why are Stalin and Hitler "evil"? You'll never convince everyone that ther are, because people's interpretation of Good and Evil is not the same for everybody...Why would your OPINION that such lines of thought are evil be above his?

are some of us just trying to find something wrong with what Darwin says just because he isn't christian?

that's definately what it seems like it, because what he's been doing is proposing the idea of absolute morality...a concept welcomed by almost all christians (any who have examined the idea properly)...the idea actually seems to demand that there be a God for it to be true.

morals are not relative. people's response to what they know to be true is relative. murder is wrong and will always be wrong. rape is wrong and will always be wrong.


darwinrocks,

the ot didn't condone rape. the interpretation of these events was befuddled to lead many to believe this.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/midian.html

murder is wrong and will always be wrong. rape is wrong and will always be wrong.

Only because God said so. If you don't believe in Him, you have no reason to claim any morality is absolute because it isn't.

yep, and you're one of them.

colors, you are as judgmental as anyone that you claim is judgmental. You do not know my heart and you do not know my life. You also don't know the difference between being judgmental and stating a truth. Learn to have some backbone and call sin a sin. Learn to wake people up instead of coddling them with "there there, Jesus loves you as you are ... now go service your next client ..." A little leaven levens the whole lump. It's not the PERSON ... it's what they DO. And what you DO unfortunately becomes a part of you. What you take into your being is expressed by you.

seedling,

you're right, i don't know your heart or your life, but i know your words, and your words are judgemental. you are making statements which characterize an entire people as "bad" based on sin in one area of their lives. i am making statements regarding your words--words which are judgemental.

perhaps you should take a critical look at yourself and at what judgemental means.

maybe you should acquire some backbone and develop enough courage to follow the truth...instead of coddling the prejudice of the masses.

maybe you don't know Jesus well enough, because he does love us even in our sin. he requires us to change but never forsakes the lost.

you are far from perfect, my dear seedling, and i doubt that you would not soil a child as much as or even more than some of our homosexual brothers and sisters. all you've expressed in your words regarding homosexuals is hatred and prejudice. children who learn these things end up sinners, and all sin is equal in the eyes of the our Lord.

remember: thou shall not judge, lest ye be judged.

"you're right, i don't know your heart or your life, but i know your words, and your words are judgemental."

Because I can see the hell of a prostitute's life you call me judgmental.

"you are making statements which characterize an entire people as "bad" based on sin in one area of their lives."

You keep putting words into my posts. You are twisting my meaning to fit what you want. You do not hear me. Would you call the career of a prostitute "good"? If what a person does isn't good, can the person themselves be good? Your bible says "There is none good but God."

"he requires us to change but never forsakes the lost."

As we should never forsake them.

"you are far from perfect, my dear seedling,"

never said I was perfect, my dear colors ...

"and i doubt that you would not soil a child as much as or even more than some of our homosexual brothers and sisters."

same goes for you ... or anyone. Don't we all want the best for our children, though?

"all you've expressed in your words regarding homosexuals is hatred and prejudice."

You hear only what you want to hear. You twist it into a neat little package that you can understand and judge. You don't even hear what I'm saying ... I don't "hate" homosexuals, how dare you say that!

I do know, though, that how we feel about ourselves on the inside reflects the choices we make on the outside. If we are not healthy inside, our choices are not healthy. We can make excuses for anything we do in life. Like illegal downloading for one ... we can blur the line on many things in life. Not only prostitutes but many people are not healthy on the inside. A prostitute's profession is just more obvious ... other people's sicknesses are more hidden.

If you had to give up your child for adoption and had a choice to give her to either a prostitute or a woman who was not a prostitute, which one would you give her to? Just knowing those two simple facts, nothing else. Just give me a simple answer. (PS ... prostitution is not a glamerous occupation ... it is very dangerous in many ways. Pretty Woman is just a movie.)

"maybe you should acquire some backbone and develop enough courage to follow the truth...instead of coddling the prejudice of the masses."

That's a good line ... I like it. It doesn't apply to me, though. The masses where I live completely embrace the homosexual lifestyle. I cannot.

Yeah, that's why we have a yearly Gay Pride parade in this city ... it's huge.

You dont think that perhaps the Gay Pride parade is celebrating the fact that they can now be open about their sexual preference without the fear of being shunned by society? The reason that a Gay Pride parade occurs is not because they are celebrating their sexual activities but because now they can be open about their feelings as opposed to keeping it hidden away so that people like you wont exhale them.

Man Oh Man I hope you have a Gay son.

it's cool to be gay nowadays. It's cool to be a little ... "edgy" ... like, oh I go to college but I can't get money for book so I do a little hooking on the side. Nothing wrong with it. I insist on condoms ..." Nobody stands for anything anymore.

I dont find being Gay 'cool' no more than I consider a womans right to abortion 'cool' or prostitution 'cool'. I consider it a life choice that has been made by the individual, a choice that people like YOU have no right to criticize.

You, Darwin, are happy to just drift along with society ... as long as the majority say it's ok.

B.S! I'm happy to drift along with society as long as their idea of what is Good remains constant. As soon as a leader comes into power that initiates a plan that goes against what the people believe is wrong I'm gonna be right there on the front line of the protest. Hell, I was against the Iraq war and let Johnny Howard know about it!

This is how the Nazis came to power.

Want to check your history books on this one? The Nazi's didn't come to power in a free flowing environment they came to power in a society that was anything but! Hitler's accension to power was due to hyperinflation and depression periods of mass unemployment in Germany, periods where a loaf of Bread required millions of marks to buy, not to mention the fact that he deceived hundreds of people and had anyone who questioned his judgement killed.

It's pretty hard to make an opinion and a statement against a lead figure if you are going to be killed merely for saying that you doubt a leaders conviction.

To say that Hitler drifted into power is absurd!

As for the KKK, if they were so accepted by society then why did they have to wear masks and conceal their identity?

But prostitution and homosexual sex ... is sacred ... we are free to let our lust reign on any willing victim.

I never said that prostitution was sacred. I merely stated that for you to judge a parents ability to raise their children based on their occupation or sexual status is a stupid idea. My dad was a computer technician but I can't stand computers! My Mum is a nurse and there is no way in the world I would want to take up nursing.

If anything having a mother whom is a prostitute would stop a child from becoming one. They would see the error of their mothers ways and change their lives as a result.

This is all just speculation of course but I would wager my soul that there are some prostitutes and gay people out there that would make better parents than some christians any day.

As for the homosexuality issue. I honestly still dont see what is bad about this one. If both individuals consent, than homosexuality is NOT as bad as stealing or murder due to the fact that no body is getting hurt in the process.

I am concerned for the women that work the streets. You must be a man, Darwin.

I am concerned for ANYONE who is doing something that they do not want to do, especially if this activity is hurting or degrading them in anyway. However I'm not about to rip a prostitutes children from her hands purely because she has to prostitute herself to live.

You put alot of words into people's mouths and talk about painting everyone with the same brush ... YOU PAINT EVERY CHRISTIAN THE SAME. You don't even know how I feel about the bible.

Notice the question in my post? 'are you suggesting?' not 'you are suggesting.' It seems to me from your arguments and the fact that this is a christian web forum that you have invested a lot of your morals and beliefs by that which is written in the Good Book. If I am wrong sue me for slander. I dont know how you feel about the Bible but I have a fair idea that the Bible has a significant impact in the way you lead your life. I am merely suggesting that the way in which others lead theres is not by the Bible absolutely.

Maybe you should read the Old Testament. Let me clue you in, Darwin ... "God" supposedly had His people slaughtering men women and children all the time, if they were in the way of His will for His people and if he thought they practiced ... "evil" things.

Is that not a contradiction to the Ten commandments? If the God in the Bible slaughters life without the chance of rehabilitation and renewal then I want nothing to do with your God.

LOL ... of course! If Hollyweird says it's OK, then it must be OK ... how we worship our TV, the true GOD who brainwashes and stupifies Amerika.

Of course we shouldn't worship Hollywood. There is a LOT of stupid stuff on the television (Baywatch anybody?) but surely if homosexuality was not accepted by society then shows such as Queer Eye and Queer as Folk would be removed from television due to mass protest. This protest which has not happened!

Most of the world thought beating your slaves to death was acceptable in ancient times.

Is it accepted now? No! Because we learn from our mistakes. I'm pretty sure that back in the ancient day upon the mass beating of slaves the rulers would have eventually looked at them and said 'Well Jeeze, they are people too maybe I should cut them some slack.' and from this we eventually further developed our ideas of what is good and what is bad.

Just because there are a few people in society whom dont abide by what the majority considers to be good does not mean that the idea of Good is relative.

One who lives by Evolution might think that allowing weak people to survive is evil because it destroys our gene pool. Why would your OPINION that such lines of thought are evil be above his?

I dont live by evolution. I just understand that evolution is a theory that most likely works in the real world. Sure Evolution increases our advantage of life for the future of the human race but you can bet your Bible that if I get Cancer I'm not gonna sit there and take it with a smile knowing that in my death the human race will be better. I'm gonna fight like a mo fo and try to live.

There is a difference between realising that Evolution does happen and letting it happen.

But now that you mention it...yeah I might start living by Evolution. If I have a kid that needs glasses he cant just go without. If my wife get paralysed I'll be the first one there with a pillow to smother her.

Oh I'm being sarcastic by the way.

the idea actually seems to demand that there be a God for it to be true.

Indeed, I'm not doubting that there is a God. I will never rule the idea of a God out until I have PROOF that there isn't one.

Whilst I'm skeptical of Christianity and the idea that Jesus as a Human representative of God existed I'm as equally skeptical at Atheists who claim they have proof that there is no God.

the ot didn't condone rape. the interpretation of these events was befuddled to lead many to believe this.

I stand corrected on this issue.

"I'm happy to drift along with society as long as their idea of what is Good remains constant."

Society's idea of good has never been constant. We just get de-sensitized. When you first walk into a room that smells bad, you notice it. After a while, you don't. It's seems normal. After a while, what you are breathing kills you. And who's idea of society are we talking about anyway? Your Western idea of a "good" society? What's wrong with Muslim society? Or is it just western society that has cornered the market on a constant good?

"I am concerned for ANYONE who is doing something that they do not want to do, especially if this activity is hurting or degrading them in anyway."

Do you think prostitution is degrading? Or only if the woman doesn't want to do it? (I bet I already know your answer, but indulge me)

"However I'm not about to rip a prostitutes children from her hands purely because she has to prostitute herself to live."

Did I SAY this is what I would do? NO.

OK ... I'll give you the Nazis and the KKK ... you have somewhat of a point. But my point was ... people are sheep. Most people are sheeple. They will go along with anything and will not speak out, even if they aren't threatened with death ... here in America we are hypnotised by our quality of life and complacency ... we hate to make waves. God forbid someone speak out against abortion and call it murder, it's soooo un-PC. Wouldn't want to be "judgmental" now would we? Gotta have a Plan B for all those prostitutes, in case the condom breaks. I would not put too much trust in the "masses" ... they would follow one another off a cliff.

"Indeed, I'm not doubting that there is a God. I will never rule the idea of a God out until I have PROOF that there isn't one."

Darwin, at one point I didn't know if there was a God or not either, and this after being a so-called "Christian" for years, just following everyone else ... a sheep following the masses, if you will. Suddenly everything I learned and believed was shattered, and for the first time in my life, I wondered if there was a God. I guess now it just makes sense to me that there is ... I mean, some kind of intelligence ignited the flame, got the whole ball rolling ... I can't conceive of this all just ... happening by accident. I have a gut feeling there is a Creator, an Intelligent Force ... but who he is, what it's all about, is still somewhat of a mystery to me. But Jesus's words give me hope. That's all I know about anything, really. And what my spirit, my gut, my heart tells me is true and real after testing it out.

seedling,

you are so confused that i've almost begun to pity you...almost. for someone who believes the bible is just a collection of fairytales, you are hopelessly self-righteous! do as you please, and believe as you please...you might accidently stumble upon the truth one of these days.

{quote]Is it accepted now? No! Because we learn from our mistakes. I'm pretty sure that back in the ancient day upon the mass beating of slaves the rulers would have eventually looked at them and said 'Well Jeeze, they are people too maybe I should cut them some slack.' and from this we eventually further developed our ideas of what is good and what is bad.[/quote]

Prove slavery was a "mistake". And just so you know, slavery is still pretty much alive.

Just because there are a few people in society whom dont abide by what the majority considers to be good does not mean that the idea of Good is relative.

That's exactly what it means. For good to be absolute, everybody has to agree on what good is.

I dont live by evolution. I just understand that evolution is a theory that most likely works in the real world. Sure Evolution increases our advantage of life for the future of the human race but you can bet your Bible that if I get Cancer I'm not gonna sit there and take it with a smile knowing that in my death the human race will be better. I'm gonna fight like a mo fo and try to live.

There is a difference between realising that Evolution does happen and letting it happen.

But now that you mention it...yeah I might start living by Evolution. If I have a kid that needs glasses he cant just go without. If my wife get paralysed I'll be the first one there with a pillow to smother her.

You didn't answer my question.

What's wrong with Muslim society? Or is it just western society that has cornered the market on a constant good?

There is nothing wrong with Muslim Society. Again I am willing to wager that the majority of Muslims appeal to a universal sense of what is right and wrong, and again I am going to put forward the idea that the only reason Muslim society in Middle-Eastern Nations such as Iraq and Afghanistan live under such extreme rules (ie- Women must be veiled at all times) is that the people whom are in power are fundamentalists just like in days of Hitler's Germany.

We are now currently in the process of dismantling Iraq and whilst the way in which we (by we I mean the elected president George W. Bush) are going about it is stupid and barbaric the fact that there is overwhelming support for the annihilation of such radical leaders as Saddam Hussein and Usama Bin Laden shows us that there is a universal idea of what it is to be Good and what it is to be Bad.

Or only if the woman doesn't want to do it? (I bet I already know your answer, but indulge me)

I honestly doubt that any woman alive would WANT to be a prostitute, the same way in which a woman would WANT to have an abortion, Prostitution is degrading because it goes against the Idea of what Sex is, something special that should be shared between two consenting people mutually as defined throughout the ages by many sources (of which the Bible plays a significant role I'm sure.).

In a case where a woman actively WANTS to be a prostitute? Well this is a sticky situation indeed, perhaps this woman's head needs to be examined?

In all seriousness though, when bringing in these hypotheticals we need to examine all possibilities (of which mental illness figures heavilly).

They will go along with anything and will not speak out, even if they aren't threatened with death ... here in America we are hypnotised by our quality of life and complacency ... we hate to make waves.

FINALLY SOMETHING WE KIND OF AGREE ON!

I agree with you in that people go along with what leaders say is right, but that is because of the trust issue. People tend to trust Authority figures especially when the authority figure is as big as the President and national government whom has control over Police. however there is an answer to this!


Education: By educating the people through sources such as documentaries and the written word we can uplift people and set them free from this kind of social hypnotism.

This can be seen in progress RIGHT NOW! Michael Moore is doing this and whilst many may disagree with his tactics and what the man stands for the fact that he is questioning the President is enough to show that the world is evolving. That the idea of what it is to be universally Good is finally outweighing those who hold power in a centralised form and are using it for evil.

That's all I know about anything, really. And what my spirit, my gut, my heart tells me is true and real after testing it out.

This is inspiring. It's easy when reading up on the latest Scientific breakthroughs to get caught up in the cold, institutional world that Science is and it is stories of people who have gut feelings that tend to bring me back down to Earth and question the true ability of Science.

you might accidently stumble upon the truth one of these days.

I think you just summarised what we all want in one sentence.