God + love + hell = ?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Ok...where are these individuals in the afterlife?

I gave you Biblical examples of individuals in the afterlife: Samuel, Moses, the rich man in Hell, and the Martyrs. Go back to my first posts on this subject and see.


FL

[BavarianWheels]

Ok...where are these individuals in the afterlife?

I gave you Biblical examples of individuals in the afterlife: Samuel, Moses, the rich man in Hell, and the Martyrs. Go back to my first posts on this subject and see.


FL

Two of your "proofs" are parables...and by definition...I think you know what I'm getting at. So you're maybe 1 for 4 since we already established that the spirit conjured was from below and not from heaven.
.
.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

No, we haven't established the spirit conjured was "from below" - you think it was. The biblical narrative makes it clear that the spirit was that of Samuel. You obviously didn't do the homework I gave you.

A little error slipped into my previous post: Jesus also spoke of Abraham and Lazarus as individuals in heaven as well. Discount them as part of a parable if you choose...I think you simply don't want to consider my point. And that's fine, I really don't care.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

FL

[jenna]

No, FL, Jesus didn't speak of Abraham and Lazarus as literally being in heaven. This WAS simply a parable, and should be taken as such. Heaven is not the reward of the saved. The earth is. Psalms 37:11.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

No, FL, Jesus didn't speak of Abraham and Lazarus as literally being in heaven. This WAS simply a parable, and should be taken as such. Heaven is not the reward of the saved. The earth is. Psalms 37:11.

Parable or literal, Jesus identified them as being in Heaven; and I doubt Jesus would steer us wrong. Parable or literal, Jesus identified individuals as being in Heaven. My point throughout has been to show that individuals retain their consciousness in both Heaven and Hell.

I know that the Earth is the reward for the saved. Heaven is a temporary abode...that's another subject.

FL

[BavarianWheels]

No, we haven't established the spirit conjured was "from below" - you think it was. The biblical narrative makes it clear that the spirit was that of Samuel. You obviously didn't do the homework I gave you.

FL

But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?" Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this." Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" "Bring up Samuel," he said. When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground." "What does he look like?" he asked. "An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"...

Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.
.
.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

Two of your "proofs" are parables...and by definition...I think you know what I'm getting at. So you're maybe 1 for 4 since we already established that the spirit conjured was from below and not from heaven.

In the above quote, you state quite clearly that the spirit was not from Heaven but from below. Is your "below" a euphemism meaning Hell?

Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.

Samuel's spirit actually said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

-Why is the fact that the spirit came up from the ground a problem for you anyway?!?

FL

[BavarianWheels]

Two of your "proofs" are parables...and by definition...I think you know what I'm getting at. So you're maybe 1 for 4 since we already established that the spirit conjured was from below and not from heaven.

In the above quote, you state quite clearly that the spirit was not from Heaven but from below. Is your "below" a euphemism meaning Hell?

What do you think?

Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.

Samuel's spirit actually said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

-Why is the fact that the spirit came up from the ground a problem for you anyway?!?

FL

It's logic.
.
.

[jenna]

I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

BavarianWheels,

Give me succinct answers, don't let me guess what you may mean:

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:BavarianWheels wrote:Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.Samuel's spirit actually said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

Why is the fact that the spirit came up from the ground a problem for you anyway?!?

I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?

Let the man speak for himself, jenna.

FL

[BavarianWheels]

I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?

Ditto...
.
.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

You really are not good at giving clear answers, BavarianWheels: "ditto" will not do for me.

Tell me in your own words why the spirit conjured that came up out of the ground in 1 Sa 28:13-16 is a problem for you. Elaborate.

FL

[jenna]

You really are not good at giving clear answers, BavarianWheels: "ditto" will not do for me.

Tell me in your own words why the spirit conjured that came up out of the ground in 1 Sa 28:13-16 is a problem for you. Elaborate.

FL

I AM going to answer for him. You know exactly what he meant, he agreed with me.

[Furstentum Liechtenstein]

I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?

1. So you think God cannot make a spirit come up out of the ground?
2. How do you explain that Samuel's spirit essentially said "I told you so" to King Saul; then Samuel's spirit went on to correctly prophesy his death, the deaths of his sons, and the defeat of the army of Israel at the hands of the Phillistines, all of this to happen on the very next day.
3. Why would a spirit from the Father of Lies prophecy Truth? Give biblical evidence to back your point.


My point, that the spirit conjured was Samuel's, is backed up by 1Chronicles 10:13-14:

Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

FL

[BavarianWheels]

You really are not good at giving clear answers, BavarianWheels: "ditto" will not do for me.

Tell me in your own words why the spirit conjured that came up out of the ground in 1 Sa 28:13-16 is a problem for you. Elaborate.

FL

It needs no elaboration. It's so simple the logic almost slaps one in the face. It is you that would need to explain how a spirit from God which is in heaven rises from the ground by the conjuring of a forbidden practice of divining or spiritist. Did the spirit have to come down, be reunited with its body to appear? Just like the second coming...all the dead in Christ are supposedly in heaven enjoying everlasting life...then the time comes for Christ's return to redeem the still living on this earth so all the dead spirits are sent back down to their rotting corpses only to be raised with new bodies and be re-reunited with Christ. And another...Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead...he must've had quite a story and/or really upset for being sent back down here having tasted everlasting life already.
.
.