"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
I gave you Biblical examples of individuals in the afterlife: Samuel, Moses, the rich man in Hell, and the Martyrs. Go back to my first posts on this subject and see.BavarianWheels wrote:Ok...where are these individuals in the afterlife?
Two of your "proofs" are parables...and by definition...I think you know what I'm getting at. So you're maybe 1 for 4 since we already established that the spirit conjured was from below and not from heaven.Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:I gave you Biblical examples of individuals in the afterlife: Samuel, Moses, the rich man in Hell, and the Martyrs. Go back to my first posts on this subject and see.BavarianWheels wrote:Ok...where are these individuals in the afterlife?
FL
Parable or literal, Jesus identified them as being in Heaven; and I doubt Jesus would steer us wrong. Parable or literal, Jesus identified individuals as being in Heaven. My point throughout has been to show that individuals retain their consciousness in both Heaven and Hell.jenna wrote:No, FL, Jesus didn't speak of Abraham and Lazarus as literally being in heaven. This WAS simply a parable, and should be taken as such. Heaven is not the reward of the saved. The earth is. Psalms 37:11.
Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:No, we haven't established the spirit conjured was "from below" - you think it was. The biblical narrative makes it clear that the spirit was that of Samuel. You obviously didn't do the homework I gave you.
FL
Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.NIV - 1 Samuel 28:9-15 wrote:But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?" Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this." Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?" "Bring up Samuel," he said. When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?" The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground." "What does he look like?" he asked. "An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said. Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"...
In the above quote, you state quite clearly that the spirit was not from Heaven but from below. Is your "below" a euphemism meaning Hell?BavarianWheels wrote:Two of your "proofs" are parables...and by definition...I think you know what I'm getting at. So you're maybe 1 for 4 since we already established that the spirit conjured was from below and not from heaven.
Samuel's spirit actually said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"BavarianWheels wrote:Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.
What do you think?Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:In the above quote, you state quite clearly that the spirit was not from Heaven but from below. Is your "below" a euphemism meaning Hell?BavarianWheels wrote:Two of your "proofs" are parables...and by definition...I think you know what I'm getting at. So you're maybe 1 for 4 since we already established that the spirit conjured was from below and not from heaven.
It's logic.Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Samuel's spirit actually said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"BavarianWheels wrote:Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.
-Why is the fact that the spirit came up from the ground a problem for you anyway?!?
FL
Let the man speak for himself, jenna.BavarianWheels wrote:Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:BavarianWheels wrote:Now it's not only been established the spirit came up from the ground, but we have "Samuel" stating he's come up from the ground.Samuel's spirit actually said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
BavarianWheels wrote:Why is the fact that the spirit came up from the ground a problem for you anyway?!?jenna wrote:I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?
Ditto...jenna wrote:I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?
I AM going to answer for him. You know exactly what he meant, he agreed with me.Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:You really are not good at giving clear answers, BavarianWheels: "ditto" will not do for me.
Tell me in your own words why the spirit conjured that came up out of the ground in 1 Sa 28:13-16 is a problem for you. Elaborate.
FL
1. So you think God cannot make a spirit come up out of the ground?jenna wrote:I think his point is that the spirit of Samuel came up from the GRAVE. Since Samuel was a man of God, if he was in heaven, why come up from the grave (ground)?
It needs no elaboration. It's so simple the logic almost slaps one in the face. It is you that would need to explain how a spirit from God which is in heaven rises from the ground by the conjuring of a forbidden practice of divining or spiritist. Did the spirit have to come down, be reunited with its body to appear? Just like the second coming...all the dead in Christ are supposedly in heaven enjoying everlasting life...then the time comes for Christ's return to redeem the still living on this earth so all the dead spirits are sent back down to their rotting corpses only to be raised with new bodies and be re-reunited with Christ. And another...Lazarus whom Jesus raised from the dead...he must've had quite a story and/or really upset for being sent back down here having tasted everlasting life already.Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:You really are not good at giving clear answers, BavarianWheels: "ditto" will not do for me.
Tell me in your own words why the spirit conjured that came up out of the ground in 1 Sa 28:13-16 is a problem for you. Elaborate.
FL