Evidence for God from Science

Forge wrote:Yes, you are giving an indefinite answer. You're equating the act and the unconscious desire.

You're saying it's morally fine for homosexuals to have same sex desires as long as they don't act on it. I'm saying homosexuals should try to suppress those emotions, because it's unhealthful. What part of that don't you get or disagree with?

Prodigal Son wrote:sure we should.

Quote what you're replying to next time.
No, we shouldn't.

ochotseat wrote:You're saying it's morally fine for homosexuals to have same sex desires as long as they don't act on it. I'm saying homosexuals should try to suppress those emotions, because it's unhealthful. What part of that don't you get or disagree with?

Before I answer, I want to know exactly what you mean by "sexual desires"

yes we should. it's not our business. the government has no right to interfere in this matter.

Prodigal Son wrote:yes we should. it's not our business. the government has no right to interfere in this matter.

You are saying then Prodigal that is Morally Correct for Homosexuals to Marry when God Ordained Marriage to be a Man and A Woman?

no, i say they should be allowed some type of legal union--not marriage--but something close.

Forge wrote: Before I answer, I want to know exactly what you mean by "sexual desires"

I didn't say "sexual desires." I said same sex desires.

bizzt wrote: You are saying then Prodigal that is Morally Correct for Homosexuals to Marry when God Ordained Marriage to be a Man and A Woman?

He said the government has no business butting in on the issue of marriage, so he supports homosexuals having the right to marry each other.

Prodigal Son wrote:no, i say they should be allowed some type of legal union--not marriage--but something close.

Ok...

ochotseat wrote:I didn't say "sexual desires." I said same sex desires.

My mistake.
However, does that mean "Ooh, nice-looking guy" or "I'm going to [deleted explicit content] to that guy"?

Forge wrote: However, does that mean "Ooh, nice-looking guy" or "I'm going to [deleted explicit content] to that guy"?

It means that if a homosexual, bisexual, or even heterosexual for that matter has an erotic thought that involves the genitalia of someone other than his or her spouse of the opposite sex, then he or she should stop and repent.

In that case, I fully agree with you. Erotic thoughts are conscious actions.

Forge wrote:In that case, I fully agree with you. Erotic thoughts are conscious actions.

You also disagree with the Catholic Church's general position that homosexuals usually cannot change, don't you?

Personally, being gay myself, and having an understanding of my feelings, I know that being gay is NOT genetic, or a choice. Saying that it is a chemical imbalance is also a totally erroneous statement. It is your feelings that have been shaped by how you have grown up and your relationships with people.

I wish I had the guts to tell people more about my struggle, but I won't tell people usually that I'm gay since you know it is socially destructive. I also can't usually tell people that I'm trying to overcome it or evading the lifestyle, because they might be angered that I will not accept "who I am". And I don't want to be hurt more deeply than I already have been in the past.

You could say alot of my experience resonance with that of many "ex-Gays" so I know they probably did not lie. [homosexuals] just want a reason to embrace their [love]-up lifestyle because they think it makes them more "special". But then again it is hard to want to give it up because you realize you have a deep sense of sympathy and compassion for other guys, and you'd know personally that many other guys you've known in the past never had this, and you don't want to become like them because you're afraid and realize that you might hurt them like they hurt you.

This all came as a self-revelation when I was searching within myself, it was like a psychological journey and I came up with several results.

You don't know how hard it is to supress your feelings, you can try all you want but it's very difficult and it needs healing, which can take a very long time.

...In Heaven... wrote: Personally, being gay myself, and having an understanding of my feelings, I know that being gay is NOT genetic, or a choice. Saying that it is a chemical imbalance is also a totally erroneous statement. It is your feelings that have been shaped by how you have grown up and your relationships with people.
.

What you are saying isn't completely true. I quote msn.com in red, so my comments aren't confused with it:

The Search for Causes

The definition of homosexuality as a medical or psychological condition led to a preoccupation with the “causes” of homosexuality. The fact that few people have undertaken enquiry into the causes of heterosexuality indicates the dominance of the view that homosexuality was an abnormality that needed to be explained, while heterosexuality, which leads to procreation, was, and still is, seen as the unquestioned norm of human sexuality. However, after a century of debate and scientific enquiry, the question of causation remains as inconclusive as ever.

The biological theory argues that homosexuality is an inbuilt, and probably hereditary, condition that affects some people and not others. Negatively, it can be seen as a pathological distortion of the natural sexual drive, caused perhaps by imbalances of hormones or chromosomal (genetic) accidents, or more recently, in a surprising rebirth of biological explanations—the result of a “gay gene“ or a “gay brain“, as suggested by the American scientists Dean Hamer and Simon LeVay. Such explanations have led in turn to more positive views of homosexuality. If homosexuality has a biological explanation, and is a specific sexual orientation, might it not be as “natural” as heterosexuality? Many homosexual activists have in fact argued this since the 19th century. However attractive such explanations are to homosexual activists, they—like the negative views—have the misfortune of being completely unproven, and one suspects, unprovable.

The second approach has concentrated on understanding the psychological reasons for homosexuality. The most famous thinker associated with such explanations is Sigmund Freud, who, building on earlier sexological explanations, attempted to understand what he called “sexual inversion” in terms of the universal bisexuality of human beings rather than in terms of the biological make-up of a distinct group of people. Accordng to Freud, homosexuality resulted from the specific patterns of interaction with parents and the complex and universal processes through which the naturally bisexual infant became an adult. Homosexuality, then, like heterosexuality, in fact resulted from an inhibition of the sexual drive. As a working hypothesis this has been enormously influential, though in subsequent debates it has also led to enormous confusions. Does a child become homosexual because of a weak father and strong mother, or because of an over-dominant father and a weak mother? Both explanations have been frequently offered, and equally often fail to match the biographical facts of individual homosexuals.

It appears that homosexuality is likely caused by both biological and social factors. However, almost all of humankind is heterosexual. Unlike skin color or sex, homosexuality is a choice, because no one forces a gay or lesbian to be attracted to a member of the same sex. If homosexuality were the norm, humanity would cease to exist. As Christians, we should try to be compassionate toward homosexuals, bisexuals, transvestites, and transsexuals. Yet, we must also criticize their depraved lifestyles. By not doing so, we are consenting with their life choices. Here are some figures on homosexuals:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rel ... 9042/posts

In fact, a number of studies performed over a period spanning more than half a century -- many of which were performed by homosexuals or their sympathizers-- have shown that an extremely large percentage of sexually active homosexuals also participate in child sexual molestation.

This is not "homophobia" or "hatred," this is simple scientific fact.

For example;

Homosexual Alfred Kinsey, the preeminent sexual researcher in the history of sexual research, found in 1948 that 37 percent of all male homosexuals admitted to having sex with children under 17 years old.

A very recent (2000) study published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "The best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2-4% of men attracted to adults prefer men. In contrast, around 25-40% of men attracted to children prefer boys. Thus, the rate of homosexual attraction is 620 times higher among pedophiles."

Another 2000 study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that". . . all but 9 of the 48 homosexual men preferred the youngest two male age categories" for sexual activity;' These age categories were fifteen and twenty years old.

Yet another recent study in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that "Pedophilia appears to have a greater than chance association with two other statistically infrequent phenomena. The first of these is homosexuality . . . Recent surveys estimate the prevalence of homosexuality, among men attracted to adults, in the neighborhood of 2%. In contrast, the prevalence of homosexuality among pedophiles may be as high as 30-40%."

A 1989 study in the Journal of Sex Research noted that " . . . the proportion of sex offenders against male children among homosexual men is substantially larger than the proportion of sex offenders against female children among heterosexual men . . . the development of pedophilia is more closely linked with homosexuality than with heterosexuality."

A 1988 study of 229 convicted child molesters published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that 86% of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual.

In a 1984 Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy article, sex researchers found that "The proportional prevalence of [male] offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent."10
Homosexual activists Karla Jay and I Allen Young revealed in their 1979 Gay Report that 73% of all homosexuals I have acted as "chicken hawks" - that is, they have preyed on adolescent or younger boys.

In a 1992 study published in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, sex researchers K. Freud and R. I. Watson found that homosexual males are three times more likely than straight men to engage in pedophilia, and that the average pedophile victimizes between 20 and 150 boys before being arrested.

A study by sex researchers Alan Bell and Martin Weinberg found that 25% of white homosexual men have had sex with boys sixteen years and younger.

http://www.afajournal.org/archives/23060000011.asp

A more accurate assessment, however, would compare ratios of population size to incidences of involvement in pedophilia. In this regard, according to the National Association on Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), in proportion to their numbers, homosexual men are more likely to engage in sex with a minor.

Citing a study (Freund and Watson, 1992) which was reported in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy, NARTH found that homosexual males were “three times more likely than straight men to engage in adult-child sexual relations.”

Cameron's own research shows even higher rates of homosexual molestation. In the Nebraska Medical Journal Cameron said that when data from both genders are combined, homosexuals are at least 8-12 times more likely to molest children than are heterosexuals.

How do you know for sure that you're gay? You could be a bisexual or a bicurious person who's going through a phase due to external agents in your life.

I think if you're Bi it is more of a misunderstanding of your feelings, and in turn, a result of confusion. But what is your primary preference?

Honestly, I think when it comes to forward-homosexuality (Gay, or Lesbian) it's more about a passion and desire for intimacy.

I disagree with most of what those articles said, I wish I could go into it, but they're too long.

Some liberal Christians feel that homosexuality isn't sinful, but to many moderate and conservative Christians, it's clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven after death. That's why they are urged to become straight. There are ministries who minister to people who struggle with homosexuality.