Evidence for God from Science

Prodigal Son wrote:so what does everyone think about the fact that most contraception kills embryos (just like abortion)...so many christians killing so many babies and not even knowing it.

Well I hope that any Christians who are using birth control understand how it works, and if I ever knew any that used a form of birth control that allows fertilization, then I would certainly share my concern.

It's great to see you again PS! Drop me a line and let me know how things are. I hope things are well as you walk with God.

ochotseat wrote:

bizzt wrote:
Yeah like that will ever happen. Even If I did agree I think you would argue me for the sake of an Argument

You're talking to Jesus' advocate, remember?

Yeah Forgot about that or is it The Devils Advocate

bizzt wrote: Yeah Forgot about that or is it The Devils Advocate

Demon, release your blinding grip on Biz for he cannot see the goodness in Brother Och.

Well I hope that any Christians who are using birth control understand how it works, and if I ever knew any that used a form of birth control that allows fertilization, then I would certainly share my concern.

Although there are exceptions like RU-486, most contraception only prevents fertilization.

Let's rein (speelinj? ) this in, it's going in too many directions and doesn't need to. If God controls conception then it is a sin, and, in a sense, perverting God's design, to use contraception. However, if God does not control all conceptions, (excluding the singled out miraculous incidents in the Bible,) then it would not be a sin to use contraception.

Xenon and I believe God controls all conceptions, and therefore we believe that contraception is a sin.

However, I believe, as one of the contraception-supporters here helped me see, that if a Christian does not believe God controls all contraception, and so uses it trying to honor God and how they believe He functions, it could very well not be a sin for that individual. Sin is of the heart, and if the heart isn't sinning, I'd have a hard time finding it sinful. Most sins, as you could imagine, require a sinful heart in order to exist. This one, as I believe the Bible says of other sins, does not. And so therefore, using contraception, (that doesn't kill an embryo,) is only a sin in certain cases, and not in others.

But, seeing as how I believe Christians should learn about God's active sovereignty, I push for not using contraceptives. And I also agree with Xenon about their sinful promotion of... sin. You can use the internet and not look at porn, but you cannot, unless you purposely make a hole in a condom, for example, use contraception and not intentionally try to prevent conception. There's the difference with those.

The end! I win! No... of course God wins. Go God! Here, I'll personally pin the blue ribbon on Him. Oooo, I'm sorry! Didn't mean to stick ya, Big Guy! But You can handle a little blood-letting; after all, you did purposely drain all the blood in Your body once! Remember that? Oh, that was a hoot! And we all thought You actually died!!! (Wipe laughing tear from corner of eye,) good times, good times!

Kate, can you see your way perhaps to likening the invention or development of the more acceptable forms of contraception to that of the invention and development of medications that relieve pain and combat disease?
How about the idea that God has given mankind a means for establishing some control on fertility, and as a God given thing, it is something to thank Him for and use judiciously?
Just remember, nothing will stop God from bypassing contraception if he so wishes... as many parents of totally unplanned pregnancies will testify to. Even surgical snipping, cauterization and partial removal of little tubes will not stop a baby that He means to have happen.
Meanwhile, it could be seen as a way of teaching us responsibility (not to have more kids than we can realistically and safely care for) while being compassionate to our need for sexual expression and all the good things that goes with it.

I could, if I could get past my belief that God desires His Children to go to Him for His will on everything, and trust Him to act on His will. I do not adhere to the theory that "God gave us brains for a reason." Well, maybe a little! But even moreso than wanting us to use our brains, I thoroughly believe He wants us to use our trust and faith in Him. Contraceptions bypass waiting on Him in that fashion. He has led me to not go searching for jobs in the newpaper with my brain, even if I were to wait on Him to show me from there which one is His will. He has called me to a life of waiting on Him to communicate Himself to me in a much more personal and relationship-strengthening manner.

Take finding a spouse for example. I'd like to believe that most Christians know that only God can send along the right one for you, and that you have no need to go looking for them yourself as a result. When God sees it fit, He'll send you the right one and say, "Pssst! Over there! That one!" Er, that is, if you're listening to Him He'll say that. Otherwise you'll be in danger of making a mistake unless God chooses to plop the divine knowledge into your thick skull without you bothering to listen to Him. That's mercy, that is. And yes, He is merciful.

I take that same trusting attitude toward everything, (or try,) and He's proven Himself in it. In fact, it was all His idea I even start doing it that way! I just play "follow the leader," and even sometimes walk blindly just listening to His voice, knowing that He'll never lead me wrong as long as I just keep listening attentively and don't block Him out. God can, with this kind of relationship with Him, instruct you which times to not get intimate, and which times you should. And yes, He'd work with your God-given desires in that! Use Him as a form of contraception in that way! There's nothing wrong with it, but everything right.

Judah wrote: Kate, How about the idea that God has given mankind a means for establishing some control on fertility, and as a God given thing, it is something to thank Him for and use judiciously?
.

Yup. God probably had a preconception when he allowed man to invent contraception.

Of course He had a "preconception," He's all-knowing, Mr. I'mTryingToBeHumorous! The question is, does He desire His Children to use them, or does He have another way He'd rather handle things?

kateliz wrote:Of course He had a "preconception," He's all-knowing, Mr. I'mTryingToBeHumorous! The question is, does He desire His Children to use them, or does He have another way He'd rather handle things?

You claim he doesn't, but since he's allowed man to create it, he probably does.

Pffft, and He let us create abortion clinics so we can use them wisely. Suuuurrrre!

kateliz wrote:Pffft, and He let us create abortion clinics so we can use them wisely. Suuuurrrre!

Contraception only prevents pregnancy; it doesn't terminate embryos or fetuses. Get it? God doesn't create evil; man and Satan do evil things.

I'm with Ocho on this one.

Kurieuo.

I think this is the first time and hopefully not the last that I agree with OC as well!

So just because you don't believe that contraception is a bad thing, or something that substitutes the best even, you conclude that God instigated the invention of these devices. If you don't believe Satan made these, then God did. Great logic! I congradulate all of you on this!

Oh I get it, the quarters ran out! Just put in a few more and you'll be good to go, oh, probably for another few years, seeing as how not much power is required!