Gay books for children

Mystical · Post by **Mystical** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:27 pm

Wrong is wrong. Not a difference at all.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:07 pm

stjimmythepunk wrote:
AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Because kids are being brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is natural, or, who knows, better than heterosexuality.
Homosexuality is normal. We are living in a changing world and what wasn't normal a century ago might be normal now. For Example In the middle ages getting divorced was a huge disgrace but nowadays it is part of normal society. People need to realise that times are changing.

No it's not. It matters not whether people think it is wrong or not. And divorce is still wrong. In fact, it is still thought of disgraceful-because it shows you are a miserable failure.

You're a moral relativist I'm guessing....which means I have the ability to impose my values without you being able to say a darned thing...sweet.

Cougar · Post by **Cougar** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 7:44 pm

For anyone to answer:

What is your basis for believing homosexuality is wrong? Can you give an example (a philosopher, etc.) that could appeal to all people regardless of religion? I realize the Bible claims homosexuality is wrong, but for people with whom that holds no water, what is your alternative explanation? Are they physically hurting anyone by being in love with their same sex? If 2 males live together for their entire lives and are faithful and love each other, how are they hurting anyone? That is less hurtful than many many religious authorities in this country, if you ask me.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:31 pm

Cougar wrote:For anyone to answer:

What is your basis for believing homosexuality is wrong? Can you give an example (a philosopher, etc.) that could appeal to all people regardless of religion? I realize the Bible claims homosexuality is wrong, but for people with whom that holds no water, what is your alternative explanation? Are they physically hurting anyone by being in love with their same sex? If 2 males live together for their entire lives and are faithful and love each other, how are they hurting anyone? That is less hurtful than many many religious authorities in this country, if you ask me.

It really doesn't matter if the Bible holds no water for many individuals. Too bad, something's true despite your opinion.

But what I find ironic is that people won't listen to an argument based on the Bible...but no problem whatsoever with an argument where the truth of the Bible is presupposed (as it must be in any discussion on objective morality).

And though I may not know of any argument at the moment...ask ex gays....there ya go, never thought of that now did ya.

It's not that unusual a sight: demonstrators gathered outside a meeting hall, protesting the treatment of homosexuals. The curious thing about the protests at the American Psychiatric Association's 1994 meeting in Philadelphia, however, is that the demonstrators were a group of ex-gays, demanding that the delegates recognize the right to therapeutic help for those who wish to cease to be homosexuals.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9703/ ... berly.html

And don't be playing reindeer games. Loving (non-eros of course) people of the same sex is not what is under discussion.

Cougar · Post by **Cougar** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:45 pm

Well, in response to that... I would like to know, Kmart, how you feel you are the object of authority on the matter and have the ability to say whether it is right or wrong. Isn't that a little vain of you? So, your argument is based on YOUR opinion as well.

I have no problem listening to people make arguments and give examples based upon teachings in the Bible. What I have a problem with is when it is preached and determined by imperfect humans to be the law of the land and uninterpretable... which is absolutely ridiculous to me. There are plenty of things in the Bible I think most modern people would agree are not moral, etc. by today's standards.

Well, I leave this discussion open to anyone, so if an ex-homosexual wishes to answer my question, I whole-hearedly invite their answer. So, if you don't have an intelligent answer, Kmart... butt out. You, once again, rambled on without addressing any of the questions I posed, but rather attacking my reasons for asking them. THAT is what I would call destructive.

I ask these questions because I would like to have intelligent debate about the philosophy behind the issue and to possibly learn from other posters... I don't ask them so I can continuously defend myself to people who don't actually have an intelligent opinion on the topic.

Jay_7 · Post by **Jay_7** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:49 pm

Cougar wrote:For anyone to answer:

What is your basis for believing homosexuality is wrong? Can you give an example (a philosopher, etc.) that could appeal to all people regardless of religion? I realize the Bible claims homosexuality is wrong, but for people with whom that holds no water, what is your alternative explanation? Are they physically hurting anyone by being in love with their same sex? If 2 males live together for their entire lives and are faithful and love each other, how are they hurting anyone? That is less hurtful than many many religious authorities in this country, if you ask me.

How can you say homosextuality isn't wrong? Your an atheist right? Athiest believe theres no right or wrong, but christians believe right comes from God, evil is the opposite too him. Atheist on the other hand, say society create whats right or wrong.

And thats exactly right, society think its right or wrong, but God isnt society, is he? Just say you were God.. would you want your humans running around marrying the same sex? Its also against 'evololution', an atheist view is that people 'evolved', when i see a person evolve to be able to make babys with the same sex, i might consider changing my opinion.

Kurieuo · Post by **Kurieuo** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:10 pm

Jay_7 wrote:How can you say homosextuality isn't wrong? Your an atheist right? Athiest believe theres no right or wrong,

I wouldn't say this exactly, but rather it is better to say Atheist's have no foundations for what they call right and wrong.

As for whether homosexuality is morally wrong, one must first define what "morally wrong" means. Identifying something as morally wrong based upon whether that something causes pain or suffering (as it appears Cougar advances) doesn't really make sense. For example, if I kick my toe, I might call it bad, but I wouldn't call it morally wrong. It doesn't make sense to call kicking my toe morally wrong. Therefore anything that causes pain could be labelled a bad thing to have happened, but not morally wrong. You can call pain "bad" and pleasure "good" as they have more a broader application than morality. But is pain "wrong", and pleasure "right"? I don't think so. Therefore Cougar needs to provide what it is then that makes something not simply bad, but morally bad.

Kurieuo

Jay_7 · Post by **Jay_7** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:14 pm

Kurieuo wrote:
Jay_7 wrote:How can you say homosextuality isn't wrong? Your an atheist right? Athiest believe theres no right or wrong,
I wouldn't say this exactly, but rather it is better to say Atheist's have no foundations for what they call right and wrong.

As for whether homosexuality is morally wrong, one must first define what "morally wrong" means. Identifying something as morally wrong based upon whether that something causes pain or suffering (as it appears Cougar advances) doesn't really make sense. For example, if I kick my toe, I might call it bad, but I wouldn't call it morally wrong. It doesn't make sense to call kicking my toe morally wrong. Therefore anything that causes pain could be labelled a bad thing to have happened, but not morally wrong. You can call pain "bad" and pleasure "good" as they have more a broader application than morality. But is pain "wrong", and pleasure "right"? I don't think so. Therefore Cougar needs to provide what it is then that makes something not simply bad, but morally bad.

Kurieuo

Good point.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:30 pm

Cougar wrote:Well, in response to that... I would like to know, Kmart, how you feel you are the object of authority on the matter and have the ability to say whether it is right or wrong. Isn't that a little vain of you? So, your argument is based on YOUR opinion as well.

I have no problem listening to people make arguments and give examples based upon teachings in the Bible. What I have a problem with is when it is preached and determined by imperfect humans to be the law of the land and uninterpretable... which is absolutely ridiculous to me. There are plenty of things in the Bible I think most modern people would agree are not moral, etc. by today's standards.

Well, I leave this discussion open to anyone, so if an ex-homosexual wishes to answer my question, I whole-hearedly invite their answer. So, if you don't have an intelligent answer, Kmart... butt out. You, once again, rambled on without addressing any of the questions I posed, but rather attacking my reasons for asking them. THAT is what I would call destructive.

I ask these questions because I would like to have intelligent debate about the philosophy behind the issue and to possibly learn from other posters... I don't ask them so I can continuously defend myself to people who don't actually have an intelligent opinion on the topic.

Once again...what is wrong with being vain, and two, I pointed you in a direction if you were indeed interested. Also, what in the Bible would be wrong by today's standard...and your point would be...what exactly if so?

Cougar · Post by **Cougar** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:45 pm

Well, I guess being vain was always something undesirable... I thought one of the points of Christianity was to be humble and realize that you really DON'T know everything.

Also, I am not an atheist. However, I am a biologist and I am sure the two are synonymous to some people.

I will address the other questions posed to me later... it is getting late.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:17 am

Cougar wrote:Well, I guess being vain was always something undesirable... I thought one of the points of Christianity was to be humble and realize that you really DON'T know everything.

Also, I am not an atheist. However, I am a biologist and I am sure the two are synonymous to some people.

I will address the other questions posed to me later... it is getting late.

Science has never been at war with Christianity, I never said that. And I was being sarcastic. I wasn't being vain-I was just asking how you can say it's wrong.

But what is it with people pulling rabbits out of hats? I've been accused of not believing in medicine as well for some strange reason by opposition.

under_milk_wood · Post by **under_milk_wood** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:40 am

To get back on topic: I think a book about two princes who fall in love is very sweet.