Evidence for God from Science

Starhunter wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:If Christians are required to follow that Law then it would have been EXPLICITLY stated in the NT ( It is NOT) ANY they would have had to follow ALL the Laws.
So, there are 612 Laws and while many are ceremonial, MOST are NOT.
To those Christians that believe we most follow the Laws of the OT I ask this:
Are you following all of them? if not then WHO decides which ones to follow?

Sorry Paul, but the 612 laws were not the ten that God wrote with His own finger, which Christ often referred to.
They are by- laws all under the principle of the ten. But the 600 odd by- laws would not have been written if some of the crowd were not so thick. As Jesus said, Moses gave you the divorce law because you couldn't work out your marriages, but in the beginning it was not so with Adam and Eve. So marriage and the Sabbath were already in the garden.
The law given on Mt Sinai was from a perfect world - heaven, and a copy of them lie in the ark to this day, both in the heavenly sanctuary and on earth in the ark Moses made.

Once we have established what Christ said about the ten, then we can move on safely to what Paul said without getting wrong ideas.

In regards to which ones we follow, all of the ten God wrote, but please tell me which commandment of the ten is repulsive and wrong? Which particular commandment is worthless?

Starhunter wrote:Neo X ,

Can you see Christ as the embodiment of the law, the spiritual essence of God's character? Or do you just see a law that simply was a mistake?
God does not make mistakes does He?

PaulSacramento wrote: SO you don't believe the other Laws to be given By God?

neo-x wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Neo X ,
I don't see Christ as embodiment of the law...He is God, law is not God, nor these two entities are interchangeable. Christ is not law in flesh, Christ is God, he is all there is. The law was an imperfect shadow for the real substance which is Christ. A taskmaster until the son arrived. Essence of God is not = the law given to Israel. These are far deeper theological issues concerning what is God, or His essence etc. so lets not dive into that.

The law wasn't a mistake it was just what was provided as a temp until God's appointed time for Christ to redeem mankind was to come. Its not how I see it, its how the scriptures tell it.

P.S The law was never perfect to begin with, it was never intended by God to be perfect either, or else it could have saved us. It's inability to save us is not a mistake, it is a consequence of its purpose.

jlay wrote:I've already addressed this with SH.
He has already incorrectly accused myself and other of saying the law was wrong, or the law was a mistake. I spoke directly to this and now he does the exact same thing again. I can understand it once, but when you've been confronted on this once and then commit the same error, it becomes a dirty, underhanded debate tactic.

Regardless of whether you categorize the law into moral, ceremonial, etc., it doesn't change who the law was addressed to. On multiple occasions the scripture clearly states, "Here ye O' Israel."

abelcainsbrother wrote:No we are not under the law but grace.However if you are saved the closer you are to Jesus the more of the law you will be automatically doing.Your focus should be on your relationship with Jesus not the law because Jesus already fulfilled it for you and you can't do it anyway and you insult Jesus trying to.You are forgetting what he did for you and thinking you can do it on your own.James to me is saying you are not saved really if you don't have works for your faith.

Starhunter wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote: SO you don't believe the other Laws to be given By God?

God and Moses worked together on those by-laws, but the ceremonial laws God instructed Moses to write them.
The Civil laws were not written all at once, but as problems needed to be addressed, not unlike our system of law.

But all the by-laws on health and civility etc are extractions of the ten or based on the ten.

The ten laws are succinct as well as broad. For eg, "Thou Shalt not steal" covers more than just stolen property, it can be stolen time, reputation, room or space, energy, ideas etc.

Starhunter wrote:

neo-x wrote:

Starhunter wrote:Neo X ,
I don't see Christ as embodiment of the law...He is God, law is not God, nor these two entities are interchangeable. Christ is not law in flesh, Christ is God, he is all there is. The law was an imperfect shadow for the real substance which is Christ. A taskmaster until the son arrived. Essence of God is not = the law given to Israel. These are far deeper theological issues concerning what is God, or His essence etc. so lets not dive into that.

The law wasn't a mistake it was just what was provided as a temp until God's appointed time for Christ to redeem mankind was to come. Its not how I see it, its how the scriptures tell it.

P.S The law was never perfect to begin with, it was never intended by God to be perfect either, or else it could have saved us. It's inability to save us is not a mistake, it is a consequence of its purpose.

I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

I don't know about that Rick. Theoretically it is possible for one to be saved by the law (if kept perfectly) so the law must be perfect. It just so happens that in our fallen nature no one is perfect so no one can be saved by the law. It is not a trampling on the cross to call the law perfect, perhaps only that one can be saved by the law (the imperfection is in us, not the law).

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:

Starhunter wrote:
I differ in my view of the law, I think it's perfect, because it covers all bases from worship to God through to coveting. But I get where you are coming from, and appreciate your sharing.

If the law was perfect, there would've been no need for Christ. I know you don't realize it, but by saying the law is perfect, you are trampling on the cross of Christ.

I don't know about that Rick. Theoretically it is possible for one to be saved by the law (if kept perfectly) so the law must be perfect. It just so happens that in our fallen nature no one is perfect so no one can be saved by the law. It is not a trampling on the cross to call the law perfect, perhaps only that one can be saved by the law (the imperfection is in us, not the law).

Are we still required to follow Mosaic Law?