jpbg33 wrote:Falling away means losing salvation because in this verse because Jesus was referring to them being saved by believing. then Jesus said they fell away which could only mean they fell away from there belief which Jesus said saved them. There end result was the same as the people on the way side. Because they died and withered away. How it is write falling away could mean nothing but losing there belief.
That's your way of proving that aphistēmi means losing salvation?
Seriously?
And you wonder why nobody here takes you seriously.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
what do you think He is referring to by saying falling away?
Actually it is not on me to prove it right because I am stating it as being right and if you do not believe it is right then it is on you to prove it wrong. I am saying that there is no way to get any other meaning than the one I posted if you can prove it. No one has yet.
jpbg33 wrote:what do you think He is referring to by saying falling away?
Actually it is not on me to prove it right because I am stating it as being right and if you do not believe it is right then it is on you to prove it wrong. I am saying that there is no way to get any other meaning than the one I posted if you can prove it. No one has yet.
That's not how it works. You make an assertion, the onus is on you to prove the assertion.
Saying, "I say falling away means losing salvation because I say so", isn't proof.
To see what Jesus is referring to when he talks about a believer falling away, let's look at the verse:Luke 8:13 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; [a]they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Jesus says these believers fall away because of temptation.
And again, the text does not say these believers lose salvation. It says they fall away.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
jpbg33 wrote:What you are forgeting is it is referring to the fact that they believed only for a while. That was what caused them to stop believing.
No, I didn't forget that. The text says they believe for a while, then fall away.
You're forgetting that you are the one who is asserting that someone who believes, then stops believing, loses his salvation. But you still haven't shown anywhere in scripture that says someone can lose salvation.
You keep quoting verses that don't say anything about losing salvation. You just read into the text something that isn't there.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Ok that veres says you can stop believing and this verse says if you do not believe then you are going to hell.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
This verse says unbelievers are going to hell also.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving,and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
These verses can Also be taken as a warning -- to make sure of our salvation while we have the opportunity to do so. Not to keep beating a horse to death.
A person CAN take time Right Now to ask Jesus Christ to be their personal Savior. That all have sinned and the payment for sin is physical death and spending eternity in hell. But when we acknowledge our sinfulness and turn to God with it -- through Jesus Christ death, burial and bodily resurrection --realize / acknowledge our personal need For a Savior. Thank Him for what He has done on the cross -- in your place -- you believe in your heart and confess verbally -- then we are saved. And there is Nothing the person needs to / Can do to help his salvation be complete. Jesus Christ has done it all.
Place our faith in what Jesus Christ has done.
jpbg33 wrote:Ok that veres says you can stop believing and this verse says if you do not believe then you are going to hell.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
This verse says unbelievers are going to hell also.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving,and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I think you're right Jpbg. You have changed my mind. Jesus didn't mean what he said. He actually meant to say this in John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternaltemporary life until he stops believing; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Thank you for showing me what Jesus meant to say, instead of what he actually said. From now on, if I read the Bible for what it actually says, I'll come to you first, to tell me what it's supposed to say.
Your understanding of scripture is second only to your use of the English language.
John 5:24 24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
I am not changing any thing. Jesus was saying that if you believe in Him that when you die you will go to heaven.
That was what He was saying in John 3:16. He was not speaking far or against osas in that verse.
That verse is there to show what happens to a saved person when they die.
That is exactly how you would say it if you were referring to a Christian dying.
I believe what Jesus was saying in that verse was God love us so much that He gave His Son so that if we believe in Him we would go to heaven not hell when we die. That has nothing to do with osas being right or not.
you have to read into the meaning of that verse to get osas.
And the seal that y'all are talking about. It was Paul referring to the Roman seal and if you brake that seal when you went before the king to prove what ever was sealed was yours. Then the seal was no good you lost your guaranty.
That is the same with our salvation we have a guaranty of everlasting life seal in our salvation but if we brake the seal we lose our guaranty. The way we drake it is not in what we do but what we believe. if we do not believe then the seal is broken.
Here is a few verses I would like to talk a second about
Here it says we are kept by the power of God through faith. So it is the power of God that keeps us but it is through faith and it is not God's faith but it is our faith. Even though we may have to go through very hard trials if we do not lose it then when Jesus appears we will go to heaven. Then it says "yet believing" which means you believed and was saved and you still believe later it is present belief. Then 1Peter 1:9 if we make it to the end we will go to heaven. It is really all about keeping the faith. We are saved by Faith not works. Good works is just evidence that we have Faith.
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
And now I have a special post, a puzzle if you will, for Rick (Paul and Phil are invited to play as well):
+
=
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
