Evidence for God from Science

Byblos wrote:

Philip wrote:Sorry, Crotchet. I agree with you. One thought, we've had these discussions of how some might be saved but we can't be certain - because salvation cannot be works based. However, I believe that anyone claiming over a significant period to be a Christian, and we don't see at least SOME indications of it, then they are likely not saved.

And you just single-handedly blew OSAS right out of the water.

Exactly, Byblos.

Philip,

I was this close(see my fingers?) to having Byblos believing OSAS. And you destroyed all the hard work, with one single fruit inspector post!

And you just single-handedly blew OSAS right out of the water.

The problem is, and I fully acknowledge it, is we can't know EVERYTHING through observations. But I do have an expectation that there will be fruit - difficult to see, though it may be. The Apostles made such assessments of some they had encountered, as well.

Hey, don't knock me because I am weak on fruit inspection techniques (I have enough trouble assessing myself!).

And that is why the Bible says to work out our on salvation with fear and trembling. No one answered my question. Why did God inspire Paul to write he kept the faith if he didn't.

One other thing the Bible is not referring to unbelievers falling away in the last days. If so what are they falling away from? Going to hell!!? that wouldn't make any sense.

jpbg33 wrote:And that is why the Bible says to work out our on salvation with fear and trembling. No one answered my question. Why did God inspire Paul to write he kept the faith if he didn't.

One other thing the Bible is not referring to unbelievers falling away in the last days. If so what are they falling away from? Going to hell!!? that wouldn't make any sense.

Jpbg,

I tell you what, you keep your works based religion. Keep trying to work hard enough to keep your works-based salvation.

For me, I'll stick to God's promises that He will never leave me. I'll hold onto God's promise that He will finish what He started in me. I'll trust in the only One who is trustworthy. I'll not be burdened by a man-made burden of trying to work my way to salvation.

Good luck with trying to work your way to eternal life.

Philip wrote:

So Philip,

How long have you been a fruit inspector?

I didn't say I was perfect at it. But Scripture tells us the "fruit" can indeed be inspected.

Does scripture tell us to inspect fruit, to judge whether or not one is saved?

Does scripture tell us to inspect fruit, to judge whether or not one is saved?

Read through Matthew 7 and tell me what you think!

jpbg33 wrote:And that is why the Bible says to work out our on salvation with fear and trembling. No one answered my question. Why did God inspire Paul to write he kept the faith if he didn't.

One other thing the Bible is not referring to unbelievers falling away in the last days. If so what are they falling away from? Going to hell!!? that wouldn't make any sense.

Try reading the next verse and note the context...

Php 2:12,13, Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. NKJV

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges Commentary states on Php 2:12

“As in my presence”:—“as” suggests the thought, or point of view, of the agent; “influenced by the fact of my presence.”
work out your own salvation] “Your own” is strongly emphatic.

The Apostle is in fact bidding them “learn to walk alone,” instead of leaning too much on his presence and personal influence.

“Do not make me your proxy in spiritual duties which must be your own.”

Hence the “much more” of the previous clause; his absence was to be the occasion for a far fuller realization of their own personal obligations and resources in the spiritual life.

People today rely too much on preachers instead of studying and praying on there own. These verses have nothing to do with staying saved but rather learn to exercise one's personal faith by relying on the Holy Spirit more than any Apostle or church leader. That is what Paul is saying.

Imagine Joel Osteen for a moment and ask yourself how many rely on him alone for the bible Intel instead of actually reading the bible, praying, learning to develop one's relationship with the Lord, seek his ways, etc, for his or her self? Now apply the above verse in that context and your will see it. Then look at verse 13 again for it is who works in whom to do what? Again, reliance upon the Holy Spirit more than a person.

Test all things, Paul later writes and add to this:

Acts 17:11,12 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men. NKJV

These are example of working out to learn from the Lord and rely on him and to test and check out what is being taught on your own as well as in the church if it is okay or error. If okay, learn from it and apply it instead of forget it.

Also applies to stir up good habits too...

None has anything with staying saved but rather how to avoid being led astray and controlled by domineering control freak leaders in the Church. How to test and discern and apply what is learned for ones own personal growth. Nothing sadder than a lackluster Christian who gets clobbered by the devil's temptations and too lazy to exercise his or her faith always quoting the latest christian book but does know how to find John 3:16. Yes, such will make it to heaven after much trouble and chastisement method God employs on such folks to get them back on track.
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B. W. wrote
Try reading the next verse and note the context...

Php 2:12,13, Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. NKJV

This is where some fall off track. People thinks works are unimportant and unnecessary. But in that statement they are only partly right but completely wrong at the same time.

First works are not things we are doing but things that God is doing through us. Not living in sin and doing right is done through the power of God. It really isn't us doing anything at all, but it is God working through us. We are not working to be saved but God is working through us because we are saved. As people we can't live right in and of our selves. It is God working through us and that is how we know we are saved.

Where you are right is if some one is doing right to be saved, then they are wrong and not really saved, but if God is working through someone and God is causing them to do right then they are saved and that is how they know they are.

We are not doing good works of our selves but God is doing them through us.

1Jn 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 
1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 
1Jn 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 
1Jn 2:6  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. 

1Jn 2:29  If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Jas 2:14  What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 
Jas 2:15  If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 
Jas 2:16  And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 
Jas 2:17  Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 
Jas 2:18  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 
Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 
Jas 2:20  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 

This reminds me of the time my mum once blurted out......... "Don't eat meat or you are all going to hell !"

I don't know where in the scripture she got that from but, of course, I grew up a little worried about all the meat I was eating.

Now we have.......

*Vegetarian based Salvation*

BigHamster wrote:This reminds me of the time my mum once blurted out......... "Don't eat meat or you are all going to hell !"

I don't know where in the scripture she got that from but, of course, I grew up a little worried about all the meat I was eating.

Now we have.......

*Vegetarian based Salvation*

Hamsters are supposed to eat meat. I wouldn't worry.

There Are Wolves Among Us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMXgauV8LrM

And...

All You Gotta Do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d3rpDdkNkE

abelcainsbrother you need to be using scripture in proper context.

Heb 12:1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 
Heb 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 
Do Not Grow Weary
Heb 12:3  For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 
Heb 12:4  Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 
Heb 12:5  And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 
Heb 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 
Heb 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 
Heb 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 
Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 
Heb 12:10  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 
Heb 12:11  Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 
Heb 12:12  Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; 
Heb 12:13  And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. 
Heb 12:14  Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 
Heb 12:15  Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 
Heb 12:16  Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 
Heb 12:17  For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. 

This chapter starts out about how we need to stop sinning.

Then it says we look to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

Then it says not to be weary resisting sin. That we haven't resisted unto blood like Jesus did.

Then it says that God chasteneth us as children and that we shouldn't get upset and give in to sin because of it, because all Gods children get chastised by God and if you are not chastised then you are not a child of God.

Then it says that God chasteneth of for our good so that we can be partakers of holiness.

Then it says that if you are chastened that if make you bring forth fruits of righteousness.

Then it tells us to follow peace and holiness with every one and if we don't then we will not see God.

Then it says we are looking diligently to Jesus lest any man fail of the grace of God(backslide)

Then it says if you are not looking diligently to Jesus then you will be defiled by sin.

Then it likens someone who sins to be the same as Esau who gave up his birthright for food and could get it back.

BigHamster the Bible says to hid the word of God in our hearts so that we may not sin against God. It doesn't say to hid what our parent's say in our hearts to not sin against God.

y'all have all felled to dispute my last post so I take it that y'all agree.

jpbg wrote:
y'all have all felled to dispute my last post so I take it that y'all agree.

W'all have felled to dispute your last post so I take it that w'all have no interest continuing the discussion with someone who keeps misinterpreting scripture, to fit his theology.

jpbg, maybe this old story is relevant.......


"The devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket.

The friend said to the devil, 'What did that man pick up?'

'He picked up a piece of the truth !,' said the devil.

'That is a very bad business for you, then,' said his friend.

'Oh, not at all,' the devil replied, 'I am going to help him organize it.'

Here is the solution to your problem you are having.

Stop picking up small peace of truth like when someone says "the bible says everlasting life so that must mean you can not backslide" or when someone pulls out one scripture and base there whole doctoren on that one verse", that is called tacking thing out of context.

If you stop doing that and start using the whole bible, then you will change your belief. The bible says you are not to add to or take from the bible you are to take it all as it is and that was what I did in my post.

if the post is wrong tell me where it is wrong. Don't just make some off the wall comment that isn't here nor there. If you do not see any thing wrong in the comment then let it be.