Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:Gman,

I am St. Richard the Sarcastic-patron saint and King of Irony!!! It seems with all that sarcasm in your post, that you are trying to usurp my rightful throne!!

Gman wrote:
Gentlemen.. I say we ride at sunset.. And conquer the world with our "Free Grace."

I'm game!! But we need to make sure our ride isn't on the Sabbath!!!

No.. I tell you.. I'm changed. No sarcasm here.. I'm freeee.... Free as a bird. This is great stuff..

I must have been blind.... But now I see... Hey take a look at the fireworks of free grace...

Gman, there's an open bed next to me in the asylum. I REALLY think you need to come on in. I knew all that legalism would take its toll, so I reserved you a spot.

This week they're running a special here. Frontal lobotomies only $99.99.

RickD wrote:This week they're running a special here. Frontal lobotomies only $99.99.

Don't listen to him, G. Ever since he turned free grace, he's used his freedom to scam people of their money. Come see me whenever you like, and I'll do the frontal lobotomy for free. I'll even throw in a good dose of electro-shock for free, which is a great deal, because I pay for the wattage when you stick those two forks into my wall outlet. And best of all, assuming you can get off work on Saturday, I'll do it for you then if you like.

edit:

Here's a pic of the lab I work out of:



Just let me know when is best for you.

Jac wrote to Gman:
assuming you can get off work on Saturday

OMG!! That is truly the funniest joke evarrrrr!

That is perfect!!

Ladies and gentlemen...the winner by TKO...Jac the Knave!!!!!

Gman wrote:And actually I wanted to THANK everybody here... I feel much better about my position. I wanted to see what type of scriptural responses I would get. I had no idea it would be this easy to defend.. So THANK YOU!!! I do believe there were a few people that got it perhaps.. We shall see..

Actually, much of the Scripture you yourself have presented I'd also use to support Sola Gractia. The Law which condemned us, and even condemns those today who aren't in Christ, was fulfilled Sola Christus. Such that it is inside Christ's righteous alone, and nothing of our Law keeping that makes us righteous before or pleasing to God.

It really is just a matter of wrong and right interpretation, and I simply believe many passages you use for support undo your case more than anything. However, let's delve into some Scripture...

Gman says: How can we love God and the law, except that we read and study it.

But Jeremiah said: “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. “They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Gman says: the Law is love and brings us close to God.

Paul says: All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.' Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, 'The righteous will live by faith.' The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, 'The man who does these things will live by them.' Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.' (Galatians 3:10-13)

Gman says: the Law was not abolished and we so should keep them.

and he is correct that the Law was not abolished, but...

Christ said: "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

None of us here believe the Law was literally destroyed (strawman), but rather it was fulfilled in Christ. Mind you, Christ received punishment of a false prophet by Pharisees according to the Law. Yet, Christ was justified in the resurrection by God against the Law that was used to crucify Him. He suffered the death of a false prophet and His followers dispersed and abandoned. But the Law that was used to nail Christ, was in the resurrection shown to have been in fact conquered by Christ.

Gman says: But we should keep the Law because it is pleasing to God that we do.

But Isaiah said: All our righteous acts are like filthy rags to God. (Isaiah 64:6) How can we please God at all if all he sees are the blood-stained rags of women? (or filthy garments at best)

Gman says: But we must still keep the Law if we love God. It is how we love God.

Paul says: that the purpose of the Law was to silence us. The Law shows us our sinfulness. The Law reveals that no one truly seeks after God--

• Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:
  
  “There is no one righteous, not even one;
  there is no one who understands;
  there is no one who seeks God.
  All have turned away,
  they have together become worthless;
  there is no one who does good,
  not even one.”
  “Their throats are open graves;
  their tongues practice deceit.”
  “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
  “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
  “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
  ruin and misery mark their ways,
  and the way of peace they do not know.”
  “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
  
  Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. (Romans 3:9-20)

Gman says: Nonetheless, by God's grace we can keep the Law -- it is how we love God!

Me: Think that through logically. Our righteousness is as "filthy rags". So, if it is God who enables us to keep the Law -- which is how we love God -- then logic says it is God who is loving Himself through us, NOT us. Every time you sin or masturbate to porn or whatever your weakness is, your godless lust and conscience bears witness against you and reveals that you - your nature - truly doesn't love God. You are in opposition to God.

Just because you keep a Sabbath Day, now you're loving God?? Again, our acts are like filthy rags. Just because we now decide to do "good" at some point oe keep the Law in some area/s, well those filthy rags God sees would smother blood over any good that we think we're able do. We can't love God through the Law, we can't show love to God in our actions because according to Scripture God only sees filth.

Gman: So you just love God any way you see fit then?
Me: It is not about "our love" at all. It is about God's love, specifically Christ's love for us. What matters isn't "our" love but rather Christ's love for us.

But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:37-39)

And it is in Christ -- which is all to do with Christ's love for us rather than our love for God, that we are free to come to God as who we are in all our sinful glory.

Furthermore, it is the Holy Spirit which bears witness with our spirit that we are sons and daughters of Christ (Romans 8:16), not the Law or our love for it, or our desire or ability to keep it.

Gman: So we should just do anything then. Nice one. I think I'll do whatever I please.
Me: Hey, if whatever you please is not whatever pleases God... well now you're at least honestly acting in accordance to your true nature. You've stripped yourself bear and just shown you don't love God after all. Which is the first requirement to accepting the Gospel and placing your faith in Christ.

As for those who have placed their faith in Christ:

• "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1:6)
  "I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God." (Ephesians 3:16-19)

It isn't about us or what we do. It is all Jesus. Who cleanses us from sin and unrighteousness?

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)

Is Christ not faithful? Will He not work good within me?

Since it is by God's grace in Christ, and His work within us that we can do any good pleasing to God, then our keeping the Law would be simply God ultimately pleasing Himself. I have no problem with that since I'm God's vessel in Christ, as Paul says: "for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

But there is no room for an "I" in any good works I produce. It is all God and because of Christ that anything done via my body is pleasing to God. Given this, it is contradictory to say that "I" am able to love God via keeping the Law, since I'm not responsible for any good actions or works.

Anything good I did manage to do would be smeared with the blood of filthy rags of the bad I do anyway.

Good luck Gman! You're in my prayers.

Gman wrote:Actually this conversation is going nowhere... I can't force anybody to understand G-d's laws.. If you think they are "ended" and that Christ nailed G-d's laws to the cross... Then so be it.

I would rather focus on the grace that Christ gave to me.. He knows my limitations, which is why I want to follow Him and His instructions so that I don't fall into sin again and destroy my life or other people lives... Heaven forbid..

And actually I wanted to THANK everybody here... I feel much better about my position. I wanted to see what type of scriptural responses I would get. I had no idea it would be this easy to defend.. So THANK YOU!!! I do believe there were a few people that got it perhaps.. We shall see..

Also, please remember not to teach anyone not to steal, commit sexual sin, murder, honor your parents, etc... This is teaching G-d's commandments which according to Jacs standards is bondage... Also tithing.. Anyone who teaches or practices tithing is teaching G-d's laws and is teaching bondage according to the wacky "free grace" philosophy.. So call the "free grace" police on them..

Good luck with free grace... Whatever it is... I don't want any part of it or the bondage it creates. No thanks... I've had enough vomit today..

...Ok, I just realized something here.. I'm a mod.. I'm actually going to be a "free grace" cop here... ANYONE who uses WRITTEN scripture to point out sin in people lives, like homosexuality, adultery, drunkenness, stealing, or other associated evils will fall under a "free grace" cop for teaching bondage...

I'm switching posts....

Scripture:

Matthew 7:1, 2, "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. 2 For the way you judge others is how you will be judged — the measure with which you measure out will be used to measure to you." CJB

You have broken the law many times on this thread. Painting everyone with a broad brush stereotype is not the best course to follow.

The majority of free Grace folks teach these truths:

1 Cor 6:9, 10, 11, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

…And with God’s gracious help endeavor to learn in accordance to what it is written in…

Eph 5:1, 2, "Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." NKJV

Yes, there are a few so called free grace people that are like universalist jellyfish you speak of whom teach anything goes but that does not represent what the greater majority of Free Grace Folk teach because they know these truths as true and teach these truths that transform:

Eph 5:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them" NKJV

For the true knowledgeable Free Grace brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, they are grieved that so many choose to remain enslaved to sin, and so many lost, and just like John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, are motivated to preach the truth that all people need God’s grace to become right in God’s sight.

Another area where you, Gman, transgress the written law is proven by creating schism, religious pride, and wrongful judgment; well, is found in 1 Corinthians 12:18, 19, 21, 25 - see below from the CJB what violations you are guilty of:

1Co 12:18 But as it is, God arranged each of the parts in the body exactly as he wanted them.
1Co 12:19 Now if they were all just one part, where would the body be?
1Co 12:20 But as it is, there are indeed many parts, yet just one body.
1Co 12:21 So the eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you"; or the head to the feet, "I don't need you."
1Co 12:22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be less important turn out to be all the more necessary;
1Co 12:23 and upon body parts which we consider less dignified we bestow greater dignity; and the parts that aren't attractive are the ones we make as attractive as we can,
1Co 12:24 while our attractive parts have no need for such treatment. Indeed, God has put the body together in such a way that he gives greater dignity to the parts that lack it,
1Co 12:25 so that there will be no disagreements within the body, but rather all the parts will be equally concerned for all the others.
1Co 12:26 Thus if one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; and if one part is honored, all the parts share its happiness.
1Co 12:27 Now you together constitute the body of the Messiah, and individually you are parts of it.

Now, have your words / attitudes demonstrated so far on this very thread line up with these verses:

2 Tim 2:24, 25, "…and a slave of the Lord shouldn't fight. On the contrary, he should be kind to everyone, a good teacher, and not resentful when mistreated. 25 Also he should be gentle as he corrects his opponents. For God may perhaps grant them the opportunity to turn from their sins, acquire full knowledge of the truth..." CJB

Titus 2:6, 7, 8, "Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, 7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility,
8 sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you." NKJV

Yes, the law is good when used lawfully, isn’t it?

The Holy Spirit teaches us all things and corrects us. He reside within the heart and is the Lawgiver there. It is by the law of the NC written in the Heart that leads to the grace that proclaims:

1 John 1:8, 9, 10. "If we claim not to have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing. 10 If we claim we have not been sinning, we are making him out to be a liar, and his Word is not in us." CJB

God’s commands are written in our hearts by the finger of God known as the Holy Spirit. Yeshua the finger of God wrote on tablet of stones long ago and by these none can obey from the heart (Hebrews 9:16 NKJV and Col 2:14 NKJV ). That OC was done away with so we can now serve in the newness of Spirit and not of the Letter(Rom 7:6c).

Yes, Free Grace people do know how to use the Law of the Spirit in Christ, Lawfully - don't we?
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Kurieuo wrote: But there is no room for an "I" in any good works I produce. It is all God and because of Christ that anything done via my body is pleasing to God. Given this, it is contradictory to say that "I" am able to love God via keeping the Law, since I'm not responsible for any good actions or works.

Anything good I did manage to do would be smeared with the blood of filthy rags of the bad I do anyway.

Good luck Gman! You're in my prayers.

Hey where is all the free grace love?? I'm one of you now..... You are correct... All our work is filthy rags... Trying to follow G-d's commandments are SINFUL. All that does is make you judgmental and prideful... Christ saved me from G-d's legalistic laws and nailed them to the cross. Thank G-d. Which is why I think we should form a coalition of "free grace" policemen so that we can stop this tyranny of oppression...

Again, the plan here is when you find someone using written scripture to justify their stance (especially from the OT) we simply call the free grace cops on them and arrest them...

It's time we stopped this judaizing and get back to free grace...

B. W. wrote:
Scripture:

Matthew 7:1, 2, "Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. 2 For the way you judge others is how you will be judged — the measure with which you measure out will be used to measure to you." CJB

You have broken the law many times on this thread. Painting everyone with a broad brush stereotype is not the best course to follow.

The majority of free Grace folks teach these truths:

That commandment was taken from the Judaizing OT. So you are really teaching LAW that was given to Israel.... This goes against free grace policy of the NT.

Leviticus 19:18“‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

B. W. wrote:1 Cor 6:9, 10, 11, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."

…And with God’s gracious help endeavor to learn in accordance to what it is written in…

Eph 5:1, 2, "Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." NKJV

Yes, there are a few so called free grace people that are like universalist jellyfish you speak of whom teach anything goes but that does not represent what the greater majority of Free Grace Folk teach because they know these truths as true and teach these truths that transform:

Eph 5:3, 4, 5, 6, 7, "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them" NKJV

For the true knowledgeable Free Grace brothers and sisters in the body of Christ, they are grieved that so many choose to remain enslaved to sin, and so many lost, and just like John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, are motivated to preach the truth that all people need God’s grace to become right in God’s sight.

Again, you are missing the point... You are teaching Jewish law... They are practically identical.

Not to commit sodomy with a male (Lev. 18:22)
Not to have intercourse with another man's wife (Lev. 18:20)
Not to bow down to an idol, even if that is not its mode of worship (Ex. 20:5)
Not to steal personal property (Lev. 19:11)
Not to commit incest with one's mother (Lev. 18:7)
Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17)

B. W. wrote:Another area where you, Gman, transgress the written law is proven by creating schism, religious pride, and wrongful judgment; well, is found in 1 Corinthians 12:18, 19, 21, 25 - see below from the CJB what violations you are guilty of:

1Co 12:18 But as it is, God arranged each of the parts in the body exactly as he wanted them.
1Co 12:19 Now if they were all just one part, where would the body be?
1Co 12:20 But as it is, there are indeed many parts, yet just one body.
1Co 12:21 So the eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you"; or the head to the feet, "I don't need you."
1Co 12:22 On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be less important turn out to be all the more necessary;
1Co 12:23 and upon body parts which we consider less dignified we bestow greater dignity; and the parts that aren't attractive are the ones we make as attractive as we can,
1Co 12:24 while our attractive parts have no need for such treatment. Indeed, God has put the body together in such a way that he gives greater dignity to the parts that lack it,
1Co 12:25 so that there will be no disagreements within the body, but rather all the parts will be equally concerned for all the others.
1Co 12:26 Thus if one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; and if one part is honored, all the parts share its happiness.
1Co 12:27 Now you together constitute the body of the Messiah, and individually you are parts of it.

Now, have your words / attitudes demonstrated so far on this very thread line up with these verses:

2 Tim 2:24, 25, "…and a slave of the Lord shouldn't fight. On the contrary, he should be kind to everyone, a good teacher, and not resentful when mistreated. 25 Also he should be gentle as he corrects his opponents. For God may perhaps grant them the opportunity to turn from their sins, acquire full knowledge of the truth..." CJB

Titus 2:6, 7, 8, "Likewise, exhort the young men to be sober-minded, 7 in all things showing yourself to be a pattern of good works; in doctrine showing integrity, reverence, incorruptibility,
8 sound speech that cannot be condemned, that one who is an opponent may be ashamed, having nothing evil to say of you." NKJV

Yes, the law is good when used lawfully, isn’t it?

Again.. Laws are both in the OT and NT.. They do NOT cancel out each other... There is only ONE covenant made ONLY between the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 8:6-13). Not two different laws.. Again I ask why are you teaching law to me now? I'm a free gracer now.. Free gracers don't use G-d's laws to judge because Jesus wiped them out for us so that we don't become legalistic. Who are you to judge?

James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?

B. W. wrote:The Holy Spirit teaches us all things and corrects us. He reside within the heart and is the Lawgiver there. It is by the law of the NC written in the Heart that leads to the grace that proclaims:

1 John 1:8, 9, 10. "If we claim not to have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we acknowledge our sins, then, since he is trustworthy and just, he will forgive them and purify us from all wrongdoing. 10 If we claim we have not been sinning, we are making him out to be a liar, and his Word is not in us." CJB

God’s commands are written in our hearts by the finger of God known as the Holy Spirit. Yeshua the finger of God wrote on tablet of stones long ago and by these none can obey from the heart (Hebrews 9:16 NKJV and Col 2:14 NKJV ). That OC was done away with so we can now serve in the newness of Spirit and not of the Letter(Rom 7:6c).

Yes, Free Grace people do know how to use the Law of the Spirit in Christ, Lawfully - don't we?
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So your Yeshua law wipes out all the commandments given in the OT? Seriously? I've heard of scrubbing bubbles below, but this is a real flush out.. So these everlasting covenants are not everlasting anymore?

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Leviticus 16:31
It is a day of sabbath rest, and you must deny yourselves; it is a lasting ordinance.

G-d gave land grants and the title to Israel through Jacob that has never been revoked (Genesis 15:18-21; 17:7-8; 18; 28:13-15, 1 Chronicles 16:15-18, Psalm 105:9-11, Jeremiah 31:35-37). G-d's gift and call on Israel have not been revoked (Romans 11:1-2; 28-29).

And Christ wiped these out too?? Pretty serious cleansing I would say..

Gman wrote:

Kurieuo wrote: But there is no room for an "I" in any good works I produce. It is all God and because of Christ that anything done via my body is pleasing to God. Given this, it is contradictory to say that "I" am able to love God via keeping the Law, since I'm not responsible for any good actions or works.

Anything good I did manage to do would be smeared with the blood of filthy rags of the bad I do anyway.

Good luck Gman! You're in my prayers.

Hey where is all the free grace love?? I'm one of you now..... You are correct... All our work is filthy rags... Trying to follow G-d's commandments are SINFUL. All that does is make you judgmental and prideful... Christ saved me from G-d's legalistic laws and nailed them to the cross. Thank G-d. Which is why I think we should form a coalition of "free grace" policemen so that we can stop this tyranny of oppression...

Again, the plan here is when you find someone using written scripture to justify their stance (especially from the OT) we simply call the free grace cops on them and arrest them...

It's time we stopped this judaizing and get back to free grace...

Your sarcasm is lost on me.

You provoked scriptural responses were lacking. Though I disagree, I chose to spend time producing a very scriptural case. I had no idea you'd lie down this easily, though I guess it's hard to argue against what Scripture clearly says.

Although I suppose given how long you've been discussing this issue you're tired and want to move on... so I'll hand in whatever badge I have too.

Kurieuo wrote: Your sarcasm is lost on me.

You provoked scriptural responses were lacking. Though I disagree, I chose to spend time producing a very scriptural case. I had no idea you'd lie down this easily, though I guess it's hard to argue against what Scripture clearly says.

Although I suppose given how long you've been discussing this issue you're tired and want to move on... so I'll hand in whatever badge I have too.

Ok guys... My apologies to everyone.. I think I've had enough of this too so I'm going to drop out for awhile.

I won't be responding to this post anymore because I don't think it is doing any good. It's just making me hostile and a bad example.

And seriously, my apologies.. It wasn't my intentions to smack people with this...

Blessings.. And goodby...

Yes, a very liberal version of Christianity stains 'Free Grace' to an abusive-anything-goes extreme. Rob Bell would be one good example of this type of thinking as the link below indicates:

http://www.worldmag.com/2013/03/first_hell_now_marriage

What we should do, is to avoid painting in a broad brush that every person who adheres to free grace falls into the same camp and league as Rob Bell (In fact, I would not consider Bell to be free grace at all but rather something else that scripture defines).

Likewise, not all Messianic Congregational groups are the same. The article I posted many pages back, revealed that truth. We should not label all those involved in the modern Messianic movement as extreme legalist and nor should any label all free grace people based on Rob Bell’s idea of grace/love.

There are times we are called to defend the faith against certain infiltrating pagan elements, worldly philosophies, and warped religious thought that infects the church. When that happens, yes, we can be hard on a person – not to be the Lord’s of Right over them but rather to win them to Jesus Christ to be wholly his.

I recall how I went on a pastor’s forum and brought up the word sanctification and was immediately assailed by his followers and harpooned as a legalist. All I could do was privately laugh. I listened to them for a bit and realized that they made Free Grace into a form of legalism and were completely unwilling to hear about how Titus 2:10-15 helps define the purpose of grace. Why?

Those folks were burned by horrible law-legalism. Some came from Holiness Pentecostal backgrounds, others from strict formal Christianity, and others from various works oriented religious groups. I realized those were some of the reasons why they reacted with an extreme grace legalism as they did toward me just as bad as the law legalism they claimed to have escape from does. The same herd mentality prevailed there as do on stanch legalist.

I am thankful that God is sovereign and in control. He had me writing about sanctification as part and parcel of grace to those folks, not as a lord of right, but as a barometer so that those pastors’ grace followers hearts could become healed through whatever seed the Lord had me plant there.

The sovereign Lord works within our hearts, just as the New Covenant, spoken of in the Old, says He would. He still heals the wounded heart and sets people free to become wholly his. Here is a truth, as we learn to love God more, the less we are inclined to sin, and more willing to choose not to (which is obeying from one's heart his commandments). There is an outflow form one’s heart that does not consist in how much one performs but rather rest in what Christ did and from that we serve in the newness of His Spirit: that's true Free Grace in a nutshell just as 1 Timothy 1:5 NKJV proclaims.

Maybe all the performance people do is done for approval, to be accepted, or done so that one feels like they are worth something, or just feel like they belong, or done even to prop-up a severely traumatized ego. Whatever the reason, such actions cannot find the rest that Christ promised in Matthew 11:28-30. So the Lord goes to great lengths to heal these things from our souls, so we learn to rest in what He did. It is then; after we come to the end of ourselves that we discover what it means to be accepted in the beloved. From that, a quiet small ember of love for God begins to stoke a blaze within the heart. May the Lord stoke that blaze in all of us soon!
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Gman, this video is for you. Enjoy!

105-year-old woman says Bacon is the key to longevity


Whoda thunk if I eat all the swine I want, I can be a really old geezer? You can have your kosher food. GIVE ME BACON!!!

RickD wrote:Gman, this video is for you. Enjoy!

105-year-old woman says Bacon is the key to longevity


Whoda thunk if I eat all the swine I want, I can be a really old geezer? You can have your kosher food. GIVE ME BACON!!!

And George Burns lived a long life even though he smoked through most of it.. So you think we should take up smoking now since one person has the genetic disposition to combat the disastrous effects of it?



Remember amigo... I told you that the Bible never told us why we shouldn't eat pork.. We don't eat pork out of faith and to be separate of this world.

And yet we remain in the world, pork or no pork.

Here G. I fixed it for you:

Remember amigo... I told you that the Bible never told us we shouldn't eat pork.. We who eat pork, eat it out of faith.