Evidence for God from Science

CountryBoy wrote:But I am curious about most all of the different discussions there are on this board. I tried to do a bit of debating on a board a few years ago that was a nightmare. It always turned into a real battle from both sides so I just quit visiting the site.

Yeah, this board is not an atheist debate board at all. It's a place for Christians to discuss their ideas amongst each other. That makes it much more enjoyable and insightful (for many, including myself), because for the most part we can all at least accept the authority of the Bible and go from there.

There are nonbelievers here because we would be remiss not to share our beliefs with anyone seeking answers, but you'll find that if people simply come here to attack our beliefs, that they are generally not welcome. That's simply to preserve the purpose of the site which is to fellowship with other believers. Plus, there are lots of atheist vs. religious boards out there to fill that need.

Welcome, btw.

Let me know if you can't find that thread, and I'll spend some time looking for it.

Felgar, yes I found the tread on death. I need to read through there again and try to look more closely at some of the arguements...possibly try to find the time to reseach them online for ammunition. As if I'm gonna settle that once and for all, right

As had been said many time, we are not gonna find that answer here onEarth, only in the next life. Anyway, I'm still aligning myself with the YE's. There are to many atheists on the other side, and since it'll never be proven, I want to be on the side that has more Christians, just so no one thinks I share other atheistic views.

later

OOPS, I read that again. Just want to make sure people understand that I'm not accusing them of being atheists for not sharing my YE views.

JBirdAngel wrote:I do not find it unbelievable for man and dinosaur to have coexisted.

Someone mentioned herds of dinosaurs not attack towns, well there arent too many instances of any herds of any kind of animal attacking a town, if a wild animal does enter a town for the most part it stays on the very outskirts, even if you take the example of the Ghost and the Darkness, the two female? lions that were attacking a town in africa, it took them a long time i believe to figure out exactly what was going on, i may not be right about this, but its not as though the lions just sat in the middle of town.

Yeah, but those were lions. Lions are about the size of a big dog, and while the can do a lot of damage to human if they tried, a human could kill one with a sword if they wanted to. Whereas with a dinosaur, let's say a veloceraptor, aren't easy to kill. They are good runners, probably faster than any man, and has six inch claws, as well as pretty good sized teeth that can rip a man to pieces in seconds, and travel in packs(according to every dino documentary I saw on Animal planet). A few veloceraptors can slaughter a little African village in seconds. Then, we have the T-rex. The best weapons they had back in that time were spears and arrows. That wouldn't hurt a 20-30 foot tall lizard. So, dinosaurs existing would mean we wouldn't be able to build any big building, a T-rex or something bigger would tear throw it before we would get to anything that can even resemble a mideval castle.

Also, if dinosaurs existed alongside our modern animals, there would be no modern animals, and humans would have a slim possibility of making it. B/c, if haven't noticed, dinosaurs, and even the ice age animals, are a great deal larger than any animal we have today. Ergo, the carnivorous dinos would eat all the modern, small animals. There's no way a dinosaur could possibly exist coincide with an egosystem like ours without killing anythting small. I mean, the T-Rex isn't the biggest dinosaur and it's larger than an elephant.

So, here's what we got. Lizards stronger, most likely faster, bigger, have bigger claws and teeth than pretty much any modern animal. And they are the ones that died out?! In the animal kingdom, it's survival of the fittest, not death of the fittest.

Actually, if you gave me command of an ancient city I could defend it from any dinosaur predator attack. However, if dinosaurs were really widespread at the same time as humans, we would never be where we are because we can't stick all of humanity in a city behind walls and stay there. We need to travel and trade for profit as well as have crops for food which you can't just jam into a city.

Yeah, but those were lions. Lions are about the size of a big dog, and while the can do a lot of damage to human if they tried, a human could kill one with a sword if they wanted to.

I know that this is o/t, but that is a stupid statement.

What big dogs would those be? The biggest dog ever was a 280 English mastiff. Average lion size is between 350-400 lbs, with claws and teeth that are much more lethal than a dogs. Ask any African if they will take on a lion with a sword.

Gladiators fought lions with swords, but they lived to fight. I highly doubt that even the average soldier could take on a lion with a sword.

voicingmaster wrote:Also, if dinosaurs existed alongside our modern animals, there would be no modern animals, and humans would have a slim possibility of making it. B/c, if haven't noticed, dinosaurs, and even the ice age animals, are a great deal larger than any animal we have today. Ergo, the carnivorous dinos would eat all the modern, small animals. There's no way a dinosaur could possibly exist coincide with an egosystem like ours without killing anythting small.

I disagree with this logic. Sharks are one of the fiercest predators in the ocean, yet clownfish survive. Lions can kill deer no problem, yet deer survive as well.

In fact, every predator is capable of killing its prey, yet the prey will necessarily continue to survive.

Felgar wrote:

voicingmaster wrote:Also, if dinosaurs existed alongside our modern animals, there would be no modern animals, and humans would have a slim possibility of making it. B/c, if haven't noticed, dinosaurs, and even the ice age animals, are a great deal larger than any animal we have today. Ergo, the carnivorous dinos would eat all the modern, small animals. There's no way a dinosaur could possibly exist coincide with an egosystem like ours without killing anythting small.

I disagree with this logic. Sharks are one of the fiercest predators in the ocean, yet clownfish survive. Lions can kill deer no problem, yet deer survive as well.

In fact, every predator is capable of killing its prey, yet the prey will necessarily continue to survive.

Yes, but lions aren't over 30 times the size of a deer. As for the shark thing, things works differently in water than on land. In the ocean, there's lots of little plants and rocks and stuff to hide.

However, with dinosaurs, anything larger than a cat would go extinct. Also, it's completly illogical for such huge, powerful beasts to go extinct whereas the "puny" animals thrive.

And maybe one man against a lion isn't a good idea, several men against a couple lions, the men will win. However, it would take a lot of men to take down a T-Rex. A little African hut village would be annhilated by pretty much any meat eating dinosaur.

What big dogs would those be? The biggest dog ever was a 280 English mastiff. Average lion size is between 350-400 lbs, with claws and teeth that are much more lethal than a dogs.

I said size, not weight or "lethality". A lion comes up to your waist, a big dog, like a great dane, comes about that size too. Ergo, lions are about the same size as big dogs.

voicingmaster wrote:Yes, but lions aren't over 30 times the size of a deer.

I don't want to belabour the point (well, maybe I do) but it's a flawed concept that you're perpetuating... A wolf is nearly 30 times the size of a rabbit. Is that a better comparison for you?

Or, eagles are certainly much more than 30 times the size of a mouse, and they have the advantage of remarkable sight and flight capabilties even, yet mice aren't going extinct any time soon.

It's how the food chain works... Many small creatures on the bottom of the chain, few large creatures on the top.

I don't think that there is a question of man coexisting with the dino's(for the record we still do if we live today with the celacanth, many large lizards and sharks and crocodiles) I only wonder if we have a young earth or an old earth since the fossil records do not seem to have any common animals of today in them. (e.g. cows, horses, sheep, goats, etc.) If these were found(please show links if you have heard of this)then the young earth position would seem to be clearly superior. My problem with the day-age theory is that God inspired the words of scripture and I do believe that He knows how to indicate large periods(epochs) in a manner much more easily discerned. The people of the Old Testament seemed to have a grip on the eternal nature of the afterlife, so why would expressing time shorter than eternity but longer than 24hours be so problematic?

This website features <A HREF="http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm">human and dinosaur footprints</A>, but I'm skeptical...

Strix wrote:This website features <A HREF="http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm">human and dinosaur footprints</A>, but I'm skeptical...

So Am I

Kurieuo wrote:Nothing solid can be drawn from the Bible about dinosaurs, however, mankind came last out of all the creation.
.

Not exactly. The Bible does indeed talk about dinosaurs:

"Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feed on grass like an ox. What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God..." (Job 40:15-19)

Job 41

9Indeed, any hope of overcoming him is false; Shall one not be overwhelmed at the sight of him? 10No one is so fierce that he would dare stir him up. Who then is able to stand against Me? 11Who has preceded Me, that I should pay him? Everything under heaven is Mine.
12"I will not conceal his limbs, His mighty power, or his graceful proportions.
33On earth there is nothing like him, Which is made without fear. 34He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride."

Read the discussion a little bit further down (err, I should say more near the beginning)... it isn't that clear at all what kind of creature is meant.

Kurieuo.