Evidence for God from Science

DonCameron wrote:Everyone,

Here is something else I find 'interesting.' I've noticed that every time God was directing what was going on He did so by means of a dream. For examples…

1) Verse 2:12: He gave the astrologers a dream so that they knew not to back to Jerusalem.
2) Verse 2:13: He gave Joseph a dream so that he knew to take Jesus to Egypt.
3) Verse 2:19: He gave Joseph a dream so that he knew to return to Israel.
4) Verse 2:22: He gave Joseph a dream so that he knew to go to Galilee.

But what about those astrologers when there were living in Babylon? They didn't receive a dream so that they knew to go to Jerusalem. Apparently they figured that trip out using their profession of astrology - a profession that God doesn't seem too impressed with. (I'm not aware that God ever used astrology to help people understand His will.)

And so, what does the above prove? I guess it doesn't prove anything. But isn't it at least a little bit interesting to notice how God consistently used dreams to let people know what he wanted them to do — except in the one case of those astrologers in Babylon?

I think it's interesting...naturally.

Don

It's an interesting thought, but God doesn't limit Himself to the means of communication or revelation in this regard. Dreams are significant at times and used as you note. God has communicated through the casting of lots, a direct angelic messenger etc.

Bart

Hi Bart,

Bart wrote:God doesn't limit Himself to the means of communication or revelation in this regard. Dreams are significant at times and used as you note. God has communicated through the casting of lots, a direct angelic messenger etc.

Luke's account shows an example of Him communicaiting to the shepherds "through direct angelic messenger."

But has God ever communiucated through astrology?

Don

DonCameron wrote:Hi Bart,

Bart wrote:God doesn't limit Himself to the means of communication or revelation in this regard. Dreams are significant at times and used as you note. God has communicated through the casting of lots, a direct angelic messenger etc.

Luke's account shows an example of Him communicaiting to the shepherds "through direct angelic messenger."

But has God ever communiucated through astrology?

Don

First, I'm not aware of the top of my head where God has communicated through astrology. I've not asserted directly here that I believe God specifically intended to communicate to the Magi in these means.

I have stated before, however, that I believe it is possible that astrology can render occassionally accurate information based on coincidence and/or the fact that God does provide revelation of a General sort through the creation. That said, I believe astrology is a form of idolatry and prohibited for the Christian.

That's why I'm not totally convinced of your speculative assertion that Satan created the actual light. The stopping of the star seems unusual, but there are possible natural explanations. For example a planetary alignment, a moving body such as a comet which might move counter to the rotation of the earth for a period of time could explain a momentary stationary light which would be noted and described as stopped. I don't know that for sure of course, but it's equally valid as speculation as your hypothesis.

Astrology is more than just the astronomical events. It involves the perception and interpretation of the viewer or astrologer. I see far more likely satanic or demonic influence in that realm than I do the actual manufacturing of the light. Have you considered that the astronomical event or 'star" involved may have just been a natural occurance in terms of God's creation and that the meaning imputed or taken by the Magi?

Further, it's possible that God's design includes astronomical phenomena that observed could be construed to a plausible or seemingly accurate conclusion. That doesn't mean God chose to use it as a means of communication in this instance. Use of an inappropriate method can at times provide information beyond what mere chance could explain.

There's many different ways to look at it. In the end it is speculation. Entertaining perhaps, but not conclusive.

If god allowed necromancy he could have surely allowed Astrology.



1 Sam 28: 7-19

Hi Bart,

Bart wrote:I'm not totally convinced of your speculative assertion that Satan created the actual light.

Does that mean that you are partially convinced?

Don

DonCameron wrote:Hi Bart,

Bart wrote:I'm not totally convinced of your speculative assertion that Satan created the actual light.

Does that mean that you are partially convinced?

Don

Speculation is speculation. There no foundation upon which to be convinced.

All anyone can say is that the explanation is plausible but there's nothing in the text that demands or even favors one interpretation over another.

Maybe God had another purpose here than to satisfy our curiosity as to the precise mechanics.

(Interestingly enough, that applies as a rebuttal to YEC interpretation of Genesis 1 & 2 as well, but that's an entirely different conversation.)

FFC,

You wrote:If god allowed necromancy he could have surely allowed Astrology.

Just in case I'm not the only one who doesn't know what necromancy means, I asked Webster about it. He says...

"nec-ro-man-cy, 1. the art claiming to fortell the future by alledged communication with the dead."

Don