Evidence for God from Science

jenna wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

jenna wrote:Now we are talking about my avatar? Seriously people, come on!

It was a serious question.

There seems to be a contradiction with believing "God's already won" while at the same time believing we will only receive eternal life at some future resurrection.

How exactly is there a contradiction? From an avatar on THIS BOARD that I just so happened to pick? God has already won, that much is stated in Revelations. The belief that Christians who die and receive their reward at resurrection doesn't conflict with this. They still belong to God, do they not?

I think I am being unclear but perhaps not, so I will try to detail more clearly how you are being contradictory with your two beliefs. If any other readers are here not understanding what I am getting at please let me know.

In your given responses, it has still not been said what God has already won. You say God has won against Satan with a smile. Well... this just another way of saying God has won, but still does not answer what God has won. What has God won? I can only think you mean God has already won against Satan in rescuing us from condemnation and giving those who are in Christ eternal life. Yet, if eternal life is a reward we received in the future and not now, then God has not already won. His winning is still to be seen by us who are to be given eternal life at the resurrection.

Thus, you either need to drop the belief that God has already won (which you believe is found in Revelations), or you need to drop your belief that eternal life is given at the resurrection and not when we come to Christ.

I think you may be confusing the statement "God has already won", with "WE have already won". Look at it this way. I am not a psychic, but I know the sun will rise in the morning, whether or not I am there to see it. How do I know God has won? Because He has told me, in Revelations, that He has. Just as He also says "The meek SHALL inherit the earth". Has this happenend yet? No, but it will! Also, 1Cor.15:22-23 says that all in Christ SHALL BE made alive at Christ's coming. Has Christ yet returned? No, Does this mean those who died in Him will not have a reward?

jenna wrote:I think you may be confusing the statement "God has already won", with "WE have already won". Look at it this way. I am not a psychic, but I know the sun will rise in the morning, whether or not I am there to see it. How do I know God has won? Because He has told me, in Revelations, that He has. Just as He also says "The meek SHALL inherit the earth". Has this happenend yet? No, but it will! Also, 1Cor.15:22-23 says that all in Christ SHALL BE made alive at Christ's coming. Has Christ yet returned? No, Does this mean those who died in Him will not have a reward?

If God's winning is not to be associated with us, then what is it to be associated with?

God shall win != God has already won

I guess the best way to answer this (I should have said it from the start) is Jesus died. That is how God has already won. "And He said 'It is done'." It is done-over, finished. He won!

jenna wrote:I guess the best way to answer this (I should have said it from the start) is Jesus died. That is how God has already won. "And He said 'It is done'." It is done-over, finished. He won!

Exactly. Jesus triumphed (past tense) over death. Death no longer has any dominion over us due to His sacrifice. God is the God of the living and not of the dead. He does not cease to be our God when we die then return to be our God when we're resurrected. Death was annihilated with His resurrection.

Byblos wrote:

jenna wrote:Death was annihilated with His resurrection.

For the believer. Death is still pretty much alive (heh) for the unbeliever.
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Death will be annihilated upon His return. Rev. 20:14. 21:4.

jenna wrote:Death will be annihilated upon His return. Rev. 20:14. 21:4.

I agree, but I'm not so sure of that being soooo literal. One word. Vegetation.
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BavarianWheels wrote:

jenna wrote:Death will be annihilated upon His return. Rev. 20:14. 21:4.

I agree, but I'm not so sure of that being soooo literal. One word. Vegetation.
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jenna wrote:Death will be annihilated upon His return. Rev. 20:14. 21:4.

That's physical death, in other words there will be no more death, physical or otherwise.

Notice what Hebrews 12:23 says, the spirits of righteous men made perfect where? In heaven.
Since you're referencing revelations, notice Rev 6:9 & 10. In 6:9 we see the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, then in verse 10 what do they do? They actually speak (conscious state anyone?). You cannot claim that to be hyperbolic or parabolic then claim the annihilation of death in 20:14 is literal.

I think the word "Revelation" speaks for itself in those verses. They were a REVELATION to John.

jenna wrote:I think the word "Revelation" speaks for itself in those verses. They were a REVELATION to John.

Yes it is a revelation of conscious souls before the return of Christ and His judgement.

FFC wrote:

jenna wrote:I think the word "Revelation" speaks for itself in those verses. They were a REVELATION to John.

Yes it is a revelation of conscious souls before the return of Christ and His judgement.

No, it is a revelation of resurrected souls at Christs return.

jenna wrote:

FFC wrote:

jenna wrote:I think the word "Revelation" speaks for itself in those verses. They were a REVELATION to John.

Yes it is a revelation of conscious souls before the return of Christ and His judgement.

No, it is a revelation of resurrected souls at Christs return.

But parts of revelation describes the dead speaking, not the living. So which is it? Will death be conquered then or not? Or do we need to make a distinction between revelation before the resurrection and revelation after?

The entire book of Revelation has not occurred yet. It is ALL a revelation. Death will be conquered after the resurrection.