Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:Danny, I can tell you from experience that when people are caught up in a false teaching, they will not listen to you unless they are open to see that what they believe is wrong. The only advice I can give you from my own experience is to keep praying for your son's mom and her family. And most importantly, love them. Even if they disagree with you about what you said, they will see God through the way you love them. It is very difficult in and of ourselves to love someone in that situation, so you'll need to keep in prayer, asking for God to help you.

It's difficult because I'm not the most subtle of people and tend to charge in like a pit-bull in a china shop. So I got their backs up straight away. It's even more difficult when some don't even read their bible; I'm directing them to scripture and being flatly ignored. I'm critisising their church; they don't like it. And so I'm in the wrong. Lol - this just inverts the whole situation!

RickD wrote:Danny, if you feel strongly that you should confront the pastor about this, then pray earnestly for what God wants you to say. From my experience, pastors that teach this heresy, manipulate the bible and their followers so well, that they probably have a defense ready for anything you may say to them. If you ask God to show you what to say to him, and God shows you what to say, I promise it will speak to the pastor. Whether or not it immediately shows. God may show you something as little as a single thing to say, or maybe more. Remember, if you tell the pastor only what God shows you to say, you will be planting a seed in him so to speak. God can speak to the pastor through you, if God wants to do it that way.

I still don't want to be a naysayer. I shall point some things out to the pastor and leave it at that.

God has been witholding the answer. He has been wanting me to get into the word more myself. To discover the answers for myself.

RickD wrote:Danny, can't you see that this is the answer to your prayers? You have been longing for a better and closer relationship with God. He has shown you how to draw closer to Him through privately praying and reading His word. Not from any public emotional experience. It is truly amazing how God works "quietly" through the Holy Spirit indwelling individual believers.

Some things I can see, some things I can't.

RickD wrote:Danny, I will be praying for you and your son and his Mom and her family. I pray that God will give you the strength to love them(no matter how difficult it seems). Remember, God is the one Who does the transforming. If they see a real change in you, that will speak more to them than anything else. Again, I thank you for posting this, Danny. What God has shown you has truly lifted my spirit at a time when I needed lifting. thanks Danny.

I'm glad about that, Rick, and I pray that your spirit remains lifted.

Canuckster1127 wrote:Kenneth Copeland graduated from Oral Roberts University a few years before I did. I've heard him speak many times and kept up with his ministry over the years.

His ministry is under investigation by the US Senate for possible abuse of tax exempt status. He also, as you noted, is deep into the prosperity gospel.

I wouldn't recommend his ministry to a friend.

Thanks, Bart.

From what I'm reading I wouldn't recommend him either; based on what I'm reading from him and his wife. I'm not sure a current investigation can be cited as a reason until we know the outcome.

I need to make an apology to Jlay and Rick. I was so sure I could never be made a mug of. But I have been questioning lots of things that have been 'happening' to me. I also need to thank Bart for initiating a reaction in me through your second-last post.

I need to be clear: I know the holy spirit dwells in me. I know this and feel very much that God is with me and helping guide me. The revival? My goodness. I'm questioning it all now. I have to be honest with you all. I went down in front of the pastor. I thought it had felt like I fell onto the most comfortable bed in the land. I am seriously beginning to realise now that I wanted to go down. I can't speak for everyone else present there, but even while I was there I knew that something was wrong. But I put it out of my mind and remained positive about the whole thing.

Three things trouble me still:

What the heck was that enormous rush I was feeling?

I saw Bob the alcoholic transformed from death's door to beaming with life.

I witnessed a lady who had been healed of arthritis.

Maybe you, like I, have no answer for these.

I'd like to say that I am wholeheartedly sorry for being so ****-sure that I couldn't be duped. I thought I'd seen it all. I thought I'd experienced 'real' adrenalin-induced highs. And I have! But, if that rush I had was not the spirit then what the heck was it? I'm still inclined to believe that the spirit was stirring inside of me. But I'm not so sure that the holy spirit was happy with what was going on.

Please understand that I'm still very much elated in my walk with God. I just thank you all for your support and guidance, and especially the guidance of the Lord in my life. I know He has helped guide me to the truth in this.

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Hi Danny,

The Lord uses those he can and when none listen, he even once used an A-ss (Donkey) to convey his truths as the bibles verse from Numbers quoted below illustrate this principle. So he can use anyone and anything.

Num 22:28, 30-31, “And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass,….30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way…”

The Lord works in mysterious ways and affects people differently. That is why I use my friend’s term – omnipersonal in these forums - in that God works in omnipersonal ways per individual as the best way to describe what he does.

Almost every encounter directly involving a visitation from the Lord mentioned in the bible, people fell down, Moses did, John did so that is nothing new. What is new is being pushed by someone and made to fall. During times of praying for people, I have seen people fall but I do not touch them. I do not touch them as I’ve been in prayer lines myself where a minister uses the center of gravity on the middle forehead applied slight pressure to make people fall and the success of the ministry was how many people fell. I personally refuse to do this.

I have ministered in places where the Spirit of the Lord fell on people and what is described in Jonathan Edwards accounts of his meetings of many people falling before Good, some weeping, others happy, some falling face forward, others slain backwards, without any physical human contact has happened in places where I taught. I always told myself that maybe my preaching was especially bad that caused this. This event does not happen all the time. I just learn to let go and let the Lord do His work, however he so wills in whatever omnipersonal way he chooses.

As for healings, Jesus heals the same manner as he did way back when. Sometimes he healed only one person out of many, a few, or all, or (from the gospel accounts) none at all). Why this is, I do not know. We are told to pray for the sick and the ill. Most often, in my experience, people who become healed, this happens rather quietly usually in privet (home/hospital) or after a service has ended and things have quieted down. Seen some interesting healings, doctor verified too, when no show was made of it.

You do not hear about these in the media as they do not grab the headlines because the headlines are after frauds – not the real deal and most of us on this forum have seen frauds and overzealous persons and miss representations. Best is to trust in the Lord that He knows what he is doing and come to terms with his sovereign will and be not ashamed when he says no, heals one, or many, have many saved, or none at all, best to do the task placed before you the best you can under his directions always knowing that God is not mocked, nor will he share His glory with another. The Lord always touches people on an individual personal level in many diverse ways.

Also note that there is an adversary who desires to thwart God’s workings by causing doubt and sowing discord. These grab all the headlines and produce negative reactions in people over time. Despite this, I see the Lord true to his word; He test (refines) the Righteous (Psalms 11:4, 5c) thru all of it. Always be refined to rely on Him in all things.
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Hi Danny,

The Lord uses those he can and when none listen, he even once used an A-ss (Donkey) to convey his truths as the bibles verse from Numbers quoted below illustrate this principle. So he can use anyone and anything.

Num 22:28, 30-31, “And the LORD opened the mouth of the a-ss,….30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine a-ss, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way…” KJV

The Lord works in mysterious ways and affects people differently. That is why I use my friend’s term – omnipersonal in these forums - in that God works in omnipersonal ways per individual as the best way to describe what he does.

Almost every encounter directly involving a visitation from the Lord mentioned in the bible, people fell down, Moses did, John did so that is nothing new. What is new is being pushed by someone and made to fall. During times of praying for people, I have seen people fall but I do not touch them. I do not touch them as I’ve been in prayer lines myself where a minister uses the center of gravity on the middle forehead applied slight pressure to make people fall and the success of the ministry was how many people fell. I personally refuse to do this.

I have ministered in places where the Spirit of the Lord fell on people and what is described in Jonathan Edwards accounts of his meetings of many people falling before Good, some weeping, others happy, some falling face forward, others slain backwards, without any physical human contact has happened in places where I taught. I always told myself that maybe my preaching was especially bad that caused this. This event does not happen all the time. I just learn to let go and let the Lord do His work, however he so wills in whatever omnipersonal way he chooses.

As for healings, Jesus heals the same manner as he did way back when. Sometimes he healed only one person out of many, a few, or all, or (from the gospel accounts) none at all). Why this is, I do not know. We are told to pray for the sick and the ill. Most often, in my experience, people who become healed, this happens rather quietly usually in privet (home/hospital) or after a service has ended and things have quieted down. Seen some interesting healings, doctor verified too, when no show was made of it.

You do not hear about these in the media as they do not grab the headlines because the headlines are after frauds – not the real deal and most of us on this forum have seen frauds and overzealous persons and miss representations. Best is to trust in the Lord that He knows what he is doing and come to terms with his sovereign will and be not ashamed when he says no, heals one, or many, have many saved, or none at all, best to do the task placed before you the best you can under his directions always knowing that God is not mocked, nor will he share His glory with another. The Lord always touches people on an individual personal level in many diverse ways.

Also note that there is an adversary who desires to thwart God’s workings by causing doubt and sowing discord. These grab all the headlines and produce negative reactions in people over time. Despite this, I see the Lord true to his word; He test (refines) the Righteous (Psalms 11:4, 5c) thru all of it. Always be refined to rely on Him in all things.
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I need to make an apology to Jlay and Rick. I was so sure I could never be made a mug of

Danny, no need to apologize to me. and, it's not about being made a mug of. It's about helping each other in these situations.

But I have been questioning lots of things that have been 'happening' to me.

That's because you earnestly prayed for discernment. God is showing you.

I need to be clear: I know the holy spirit dwells in me. I know this and feel very much that God is with me and helping guide me.

Praise God!!!! He will NEVER leave you nor forsake you!!!!

The revival? My goodness. I'm questioning it all now. I have to be honest with you all. I went down in front of the pastor. I thought it had felt like I fell onto the most comfortable bed in the land. I am seriously beginning to realise now that I wanted to go down.

Danny, don't get discouraged over this. It's clear God used this to bring you closer to Him.

, but even while I was there I knew that something was wrong. But I put it out of my mind and remained positive about the whole thing.

that was the Holy Spirit speaking to you. I've had many similar situations where the HS was telling me something was wrong. Now that you know, it's very real when God speaks to us through the HS.

What the heck was that enormous rush I was feeling?

It could have been you being emotionally caught up in the "experience" of it all. Ask God to show you.

I saw Bob the alcoholic transformed from death's door to beaming with life.

Bob could have been caught up in the experience himself. Or, sometimes these pastors have "plants". People that work with them to claim healings that in turn get the crowd more emotional. Which in turn brings in more money.

I witnessed a lady who had been healed of arthritis.

The real proof would be to see if the lady is "still" healed after her emotions of the experience have died down. Or, maybe she didn't really have arthritis.

I'd like to say that I am wholeheartedly sorry for being so ****-sure that I couldn't be duped. I thought I'd seen it all. I thought I'd experienced 'real' adrenalin-induced highs. And I have! But, if that rush I had was not the spirit then what the heck was it? I'm still inclined to believe that the spirit was stirring inside of me. But I'm not so sure that the holy spirit was happy with what was going on.

Danny, it can happen to any of us. Keep in the word, and continually pray. God will guide you.

Please understand that I'm still very much elated in my walk with God. I just thank you all for your support and guidence, and especially the guidence of the Lord in my life. I know He has helped guide me to the truth in this.

Praise God! This is how God moves in a believer's life when he/she honestly seeks discernment through prayer!!!!!!
God Bless you, Danny. This is very encouraging to me and others. It shows that God does answer prayers!

Rick, thank you for your replies. If you don't mind I'd like to 'pm' you about a couple of things related to this.

DannyM wrote:Rick, thank you for your replies. If you don't mind I'd like to 'pm' you about a couple of things related to this.

That's fine, Danny.

I used to use ketamine like it's nobody's business. I mean I'd shoot it. It was something else but something was missing, any divine relevance so I quite 5 years ago. This may sound funny but after I left it I was wide open and Satan filled the void. Got me higher then ketamine which was just crazy. Cause when I was shooting Ketamine things that appeared smaller then my body were like atomically small and the things that were bigger then me appeared cosmically big, and Satan seemed to do the same things without the drugs, create the same illusions. But I believe all reliaty is an illusion so I respect it I was just happy just not to stick a needle in my arm twice a day. I was blowing out my veins, I had to change up every two months. It was crazy, ketamine is the drug to acess your unconcious mind, then Satan was the god to acess the unconcios mind. Maybe I'm lost, maybe I'm found, I'm confused, you all know I want to believe I just can't have faith.

kevdog19 wrote:I used to use ketamine like it's nobody's business. I mean I'd shoot it. It was something else but something was missing, any divine relevance so I quite 5 years ago. This may sound funny but after I left it I was wide open and Satan filled the void. Got me higher then ketamine which was just crazy. Cause when I was shooting Ketamine things that appeared smaller then my body were like atomically small and the things that were bigger then me appeared cosmically big, and Satan seemed to do the same things without the drugs, create the same illusions. But I believe all reliaty is an illusion so I respect it I was just happy just not to stick a needle in my arm twice a day. I was blowing out my veins, I had to change up every two months. It was crazy, ketamine is the drug to acess your unconcious mind, then Satan was the god to acess the unconcios mind. Maybe I'm lost, maybe I'm found, I'm confused, you all know I want to believe I just can't have faith.

Looks like satan has been robbing you of your mind and sleep -- How's it workin' for you???

Kevin, You need treatment for your addiction... go to a treatment center and get help - call a sucide prevention hotline ASAP...

...At sufficiently high doses of the drug ketamine (often .25 grams (0.0088 oz) - .5 grams (0.018 oz) or more), it is common to experience a "K-hole". This is a slang term for a subjective state of dissociation from the body which may mimic the phenomenology of schizophrenia...

From this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-hole

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yes I experienced some strange states. But after I was off of drugs I felt just as extreme states just through ritual.

kevdog19 wrote:yes I experienced some strange states. But after I was off of drugs I felt just as extreme states just through ritual.

Kevin, this drug alters your mind severely - the side effects last a really long time... A drug that lifts the mind from the body is not good and it has extremely bad side effects -some of which you are demonstrating here on this forum.

You need professional help close by your home - a treatment center.
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I feel that I'm clean, it's been a long time. Yeah Ketamine is a strong drug but you can shake it off eventually. You make it seem like it's impossible.

B. W. wrote:Hi Danny,

The Lord uses those he can and when none listen, he even once used an A-ss (Donkey) to convey his truths as the bibles verse from Numbers quoted below illustrate this principle. So he can use anyone and anything.

Num 22:28, 30-31, “And the LORD opened the mouth of the a-ss,….30 And the *** said unto Balaam, Am not I thine a-ss, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. 31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way…” KJV

The Lord works in mysterious ways and affects people differently. That is why I use my friend’s term – omnipersonal in these forums - in that God works in omnipersonal ways per individual as the best way to describe what he does.

Almost every encounter directly involving a visitation from the Lord mentioned in the bible, people fell down, Moses did, John did so that is nothing new. What is new is being pushed by someone and made to fall. During times of praying for people, I have seen people fall but I do not touch them. I do not touch them as I’ve been in prayer lines myself where a minister uses the center of gravity on the middle forehead applied slight pressure to make people fall and the success of the ministry was how many people fell. I personally refuse to do this.

I have ministered in places where the Spirit of the Lord fell on people and what is described in Jonathan Edwards accounts of his meetings of many people falling before Good, some weeping, others happy, some falling face forward, others slain backwards, without any physical human contact has happened in places where I taught. I always told myself that maybe my preaching was especially bad that caused this. This event does not happen all the time. I just learn to let go and let the Lord do His work, however he so wills in whatever omnipersonal way he chooses.

As for healings, Jesus heals the same manner as he did way back when. Sometimes he healed only one person out of many, a few, or all, or (from the gospel accounts) none at all). Why this is, I do not know. We are told to pray for the sick and the ill. Most often, in my experience, people who become healed, this happens rather quietly usually in privet (home/hospital) or after a service has ended and things have quieted down. Seen some interesting healings, doctor verified too, when no show was made of it.

You do not hear about these in the media as they do not grab the headlines because the headlines are after frauds – not the real deal and most of us on this forum have seen frauds and overzealous persons and miss representations. Best is to trust in the Lord that He knows what he is doing and come to terms with his sovereign will and be not ashamed when he says no, heals one, or many, have many saved, or none at all, best to do the task placed before you the best you can under his directions always knowing that God is not mocked, nor will he share His glory with another. The Lord always touches people on an individual personal level in many diverse ways.

Also note that there is an adversary who desires to thwart God’s workings by causing doubt and sowing discord. These grab all the headlines and produce negative reactions in people over time. Despite this, I see the Lord true to his word; He test (refines) the Righteous (Psalms 11:4, 5c) thru all of it. Always be refined to rely on Him in all things.
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B.W.

A quite fantistic post! I have only just found the time to give it a proper read. If you don't mind I'd like to get into this with you...My computer should finally be sorted out in a wee while.

God Bless, brother

Okay Danny, will wait to hear from you more on this...

Be Blest!
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