Evidence for God from Science

DannyM wrote:

MarcusOfLycia wrote:

DannyM wrote:Jlay

Repentance is absolutely essential for salvation. It isn't separate from faith per se, nor is it identical. I wouldn't even say it is a 'part' of faith. But it is all interwoven. If someone is trying to use repentance to argue against faith alone, it would appear that they do not understand either the word, or the human mind.

You sure about this, J?

Repentance in the original language means 'turning away from'. You can't place faith in Christ if you haven't turned to Him.

Repentance does not save you. You do not 'change your mind' when you trust Christ. Your salvation is all the work of Christ, and 'changing one's mind' would be a work of yours and not Christ.

Like I said, repentance goes hand in hand with your faith in Christ.

That's interesting, because Christ says to 'repent' and trust Him. Are you saying that there is absolutely nothing on the human end of Salvation? Not even accepting Christ? Because if that's the case, I'd be interested in seeing how you reconcile God condemning people to hell when He is responsible for controlling which choice they make.

Murray wrote:

RickD wrote:

If Jesus is the only way to God as Acts 4:12 says, then Islam is not just cruel, but eternally cruel.


I am not sure why you guys are pursuing this line with Noah. Muslims sincerely believe they are telling the truth. They believe it. Islam, as I believe, is wrong. And, I think there are a lot of lines one can pursue to demonstrate this. But is there a point in trying to say it is cruel because it preaches hell and condemnation for unbelievers? I don't see it.

Jlay, I'm saying it's cruel because it is a false religion. Believing in Allah will get someone eternal separation from God.

Allah is not a "god" per say. Allah is god directly translated into arabic. Christians in the middle east worship "allah"

Murray Allah is a moon god. Just one of many gods. I know Muslims claim Allah is God. I'm saying I believe the God of the bible is NOT Allah.

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:Jlay, I'm saying it's cruel because it is a false religion. Believing in Allah will get someone eternal separation from God.

Rick, Muslims don't believe it is a false religion so Muslims will tell you that blieving in Allah will get you to heaven. Therefore our religion is cruel as it will get us eternal separation from God.

Danny, maybe both biblical Christianity and Islam are wrong. If we compare the two, we know they both can't be correct. At least if I'm a believer of Islam, I get 72 virginians when I die. I just hope I would get George& Martha Washington, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, and those kind of Virginians. That would make for some interesting conversations.

MarcusOfLycia wrote:That's interesting, because Christ says to 'repent' and trust Him. Are you saying that there is absolutely nothing on the human end of Salvation? Not even accepting Christ? Because if that's the case, I'd be interested in seeing how you reconcile God condemning people to hell when He is responsible for controlling which choice they make.

Yeah that’s what I’m saying. Are you saying that there is some form of human work which contributes to salvation? Who am I to “accept” Christ?

Where am I told to repent in order to be saved?

I’m not sure about your last sentence. What do I need to reconcile?

RickD wrote:

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:Jlay, I'm saying it's cruel because it is a false religion. Believing in Allah will get someone eternal separation from God.

Rick, Muslims don't believe it is a false religion so Muslims will tell you that blieving in Allah will get you to heaven. Therefore our religion is cruel as it will get us eternal separation from God.

What have I done now?

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:Jlay, I'm saying it's cruel because it is a false religion. Believing in Allah will get someone eternal separation from God.

Rick, Muslims don't believe it is a false religion so Muslims will tell you that blieving in Allah will get you to heaven. Therefore our religion is cruel as it will get us eternal separation from God.

What have I done now?

Sorry Danny, you posted before my edit was done. See edited post 3 posts up

Where am I told to repent in order to be saved?

Luke 13:3
Matthew 4:17
Mark 1:15

RickD wrote:
At least if I'm a believer of Islam, I get 72 virginians when I die. I just hope I would get George& Martha Washington, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, and those kind of Virginians. That would make for some interesting conversations.

Nice take. Yeah that would be interesting

72 virgins?

What if they’re all virgin grannies?

Or 18 year old boys?

RickD wrote:

Where am I told to repent in order to be saved?

Luke 13:3
Matthew 4:17
Mark 1:15

And these apply to me, for my salvation?

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:
At least if I'm a believer of Islam, I get 72 virginians when I die. I just hope I would get George& Martha Washington, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, James Monroe, and those kind of Virginians. That would make for some interesting conversations.

Nice take. Yeah that would be interesting

72 virgins?

What if they’re all virgin grannies?

Or 18 year old boys?

Oh my! I thought it was Virginians. I better study more about Islam. You're telling me if I convert to Islam, when I die I get 72 virgins? I don't know about that. I don't think virgins exist anymore. At least not in the U.S.

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:

Where am I told to repent in order to be saved?

Luke 13:3
Matthew 4:17
Mark 1:15

And these apply to me, for my salvation?

Of course, Danny. I thought that this whole thread was about taking verses out of context. I figured I'd just pick a few random verses, quote them out of context, and that would prove my point. Did I win?

RickD wrote:

DannyM wrote:

RickD wrote:

Where am I told to repent in order to be saved?

Luke 13:3
Matthew 4:17
Mark 1:15

And these apply to me, for my salvation?

Of course, Danny. I thought that this whole thread was about taking verses out of context. I figured I'd just pick a few random verses, quote them out of context, and that would prove my point. Did I win?

Sorry, Rick, this was ironic? sheesh I'm slow today.

MarcusOfLycia wrote:
Repentance in the original language means 'turning away from'. You can't place faith in Christ if you haven't turned to Him.

Metanoeo is a combination of two words:
Noeo
* Literally, "to direct one's mind to a subject"
* In classical Greek it meant "to perceive" or "to notice"

Meta
* In compounds means "after," "with," "around," etc.

Metanoeo literally means "after directing one's mind to a subject.

DannyM wrote:Repentance does not save you. You do not 'change your mind' when you trust Christ. Your salvation is all the work of Christ, and 'changing one's mind' would be a work of yours and not Christ.

You are right on one thing Danny. Repentance doesn't per se save you. But what you state almost sounds like hyper Calvanism. Jesus life, death, and res. are what saves. That is finished and done.
I would disagree that changing one's mind is counted as a work. Rom. 2:4. I am confounded at how people can confuse yielding in belief to living a perfect life, hanging on a cross, rising from the dead and ascending to heaven. The work of salvation is all in Christ. I've never felt like I earned a gift by willingly receiving it.
All of JTB's, Jesus' and Paul's ministry were about persuading people to receive the truth. 2 Cor 5:11
Why would the bible say, God commands all men everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30-31

You do not 'change your mind' when you trust Christ..... and 'changing one's mind' would be a work of yours and not Christ.

Danny, if I analyzed your statement under your own condition, I could make the same accusation. Your faith? If it is your faith, then it is a work or yours and not Christ.

It's kind of like saying, you buy me a plane ticket, a pilot flies and lands the plane. And then saying that I contributed to the flight because I decided to get on board.

You do not 'change your mind' when you trust Christ.

Of course not. You already have. Repent and believe. You can't trust the doctor till you've changed your mind about him. If a person doesn't think they are a sinner, they need to change/submit their mind. (1 Cor 14:24) If they don't believe Jesus is the son of God, they need to change/submit their mind. If a person doesn't believe the cross is directly related to their own sin condition, they need to change/submit their mind.

You are right on one thing Danny. Repentance doesn't per say save you. But what you state almost sounds like hyper Calvanism. Jesus life, death, and res. are what saves. That is finished and done.

I’m just saying repentance is not a condition of our salvation. Jesus never stipulates it. Paul never stipulates it.

I would disagree that changing one's mind is not a work. Rom. 2:4. I am confounded at how people can confuse yielding in belief to living a perfect life, hanging on a cross, rising from the dead and ascending to heaven. The work of salvation is all in Christ. I've never felt like I earned a gift by willingly receiving it.

I really don’t see your problem. Trusting in Christ is not a work. Repentance is not a work. If repentance had been condition for one’s salvation then repentance is still not a work.

All of JTB's, Jesus' and Paul's ministry were about persuading people to receive the truth. 2 Cor 5:11
Why would the bible say, God commands all men everywhere to repent. Acts 17:30-31

Because of course we should repent. We are just never told to repent to obtain salvation.

Danny, if I analyzed your statement under your own condition, I could make the same accusation. Your faith? If it is your faith, then it is a work or yours and not Christ.
It's kind of like saying, you buy me a plane ticket, a pilot flies and lands the plane. And then saying that I contributed to the flight because I decided to get on board.

Sorry, J, that doesn’t fly. My faith entails a repentance. Repentance comes after and with my faith. This faith is distinct from the saving faith given to me by Christ.

Of course not. You already have. Repent and believe. You can't trust the doctor till you've changed your mind about him. If a person doesn't think they are a sinner, they need to change/submit their mind. (1 Cor 14:24) If they don't believe Jesus is the son of God, they need to change/submit their mind. If a person doesn't believe the cross is directly related to their own sin condition, they need to change/submit their mind.

Yes I agree and this is why I say repentance is synonymous with our faith.

Maybe its just a wording thing we're disagreeing on. Let me try this:

Do you believe that you have a choice to accept Christ?