Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

zacchaeus wrote:I am a follower of Jesus Christ and I am part of His BODY!!!

Zacchaeus is "Christ's appendix".

So does that make him a useless theological appendage?

Byblos wrote:

RickD wrote:

zacchaeus wrote:I am a follower of Jesus Christ and I am part of His BODY!!!

Zacchaeus is "Christ's appendix".

So does that make him a useless theological appendage?

1 Corinthians 12:22-23
22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable,

Zacchaeus is an integral part of the body, Byblos.

I find great honor in naming Zacchaeus as "Christ's appendix".

ahhh, wise guy hay, lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where to start ...? First of all, I am a Christian believer.That is what I identify with, not a denomination.

My background ... let's see if I can do this briefly. I was raised in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (theologically conservative), but really became a committed believer through the ministry of Young Life (high school). I was influenced by reading The Cross and the Switchblade, and attended charismatic churches while in college. When I moved to Silicon Valley, I attended an independent Christian Church, where I met and married Mrs. S in CA. With moving about, children and trying to find a place we fit in, we attended a Southern Baptist Church, a Grace Brethren Church, another independent Christian Church, a Regular Baptist Church, a charismatic church (nearly 20 years there), and are now at a Conservative Baptist Church (4 1/2 years). So I guess the word that would sum up where I'm at would be Evangelical. Normally, brevity is not among my spiritual gifts.

Ahhh....As I mentioned in my introduction and in a number of other posts, I am a practicing Catholic. I have never been anything but Catholic. Unfortunately, in my arrogant youth, I became a "dormant" Catholic for about 7 years in my early 20's, but returned as I came to realize that my life was not going in the direction that I had once hoped. It was, actually, quite a mess. I knew I had to get back to my Lord. I have been an active Catholic ever since. I have many friends who are non-Catholic and have learned much from them. I respect all Christian denominations (except for fringe and/or cultic-like sects) and their members to believe according to their convictions and their church. I make it a point to not get into debates about the pros and cons of this or that Christian denomination because I don't think it resolves anything. I think it sows division and suspicion. I much rather concentrate on those areas where we can all agree--and to share the love and devotion to God in our respective denominations.

I am very happy to answer any genuine questions about the Catholic Church or her teachings--I'm not a scholar, but I do know my faith. If I cannot answer someone's question, I will research it and provide the best explanation/answer that I can.

I am very happy to be here--especially because of the science emphasis. I don't debate evolutionists either because it is a non-winnable argument. I leave evolutionists to their religion and I expect the same in turn to me.

I think I forgot what the original question was! In any case, I'm just glad to be here with all you good people! God bless you!

Thank you for sharing about yourself CT,

I don't debate evolutionists either because it is a non-winnable argument. I leave evolutionists to their religion and I expect the same in turn to me.

Its a strawman and quite an insult to say such, no one worships evolution, nor it is a religion, nor I or the rest of my cult (people who understand evolution) have a Sunday service.

Would you be kind enough to actually prove that evolution is a religion leaving bare assertions aside? and without misusing terminology around? I look forward to your reply.

In light of what Neo-x said I thought this was something we could all think about.

“Let the mouth also fast from disgraceful speeches and railings. For what does it profit if we abstain from fish and fowl and yet bite and devour our brothers and sisters? The evil speaker eats the flesh of his brother and bites the body of his neighbor.”

* St. John Chrysostom

We are all guilty of this from time to time, so lets take a step back and have some respect for each others beliefs whether you agree with them or not.


I really do like the quote, it's a cracker.

neo-x wrote:Thank you for sharing about yourself CT,

I don't debate evolutionists either because it is a non-winnable argument. I leave evolutionists to their religion and I expect the same in turn to me.

Its a strawman and quite an insult to say such, no one worships evolution, nor it is a religion, nor I or the rest of my cult (people who understand evolution) have a Sunday service.

Would you be kind enough to actually prove that evolution is a religion leaving bare assertions aside? and without misusing terminology around? I look forward to your reply.

Well, I am very sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to do that. I've stated elsewhere on this forum that I think that belief in evolution takes as much an act of faith (probably more) as it does to believe in an Omnipotent Being who made all things from nothing. I don't believe anyone can prove evolution just as there is no way to prove that God exists. Both require faith. But, what I should have done was to qualify that statement by saying that it is my opinion. I don't think evolution is a "religion" per se, but that like belief in God, requires an act of faith. So, I was remiss in using that term in my post. As the teenagers say, "My bad."

Born and raised in a Pentecostal home, parents were missionaries in the Caribbean islands and Central America. At 24 started to loose my faith for ; why was hell forever, why my secular life did not squared with my faith (why didn't I get what I prayed for?). The question of weather Christianity made sense was never answered and I spent 25 years in New Age, at least bad stuff happening was explained in karma....In 2007 I read a Christian apologetic book and it convinced me to try this thing again. Learned Christian theology for the first time and spent the next five years reading theology. At the insistence of family and friends I started to visit a non denominational church which after a year I found the pastor to be a unitarian. Visit several churches but was "pushed out". Prayed for the church to come to my door and a baptist church invite took me to spend another year visiting that one.
Helping my daughter find a church found a hispanic AOG church who's pastor was a friend of dad. That is the only church I became a member, good decision for it provided the privilege to teach modern evangelism. Left to Florida to work alongside mom, but no fruits of this work bore reality, now returning to the west coast will likely visit different churches, membership will have to be a careful decision.

I think that the many sects despite their differences is the will of God for souls of all social and character tendencies to be saved. If you are a very naive and emotional person, the Pentecostal church provides the right environment for you. If you are a very un-emotional highly intellectual person, perhaps the Baptist is for you. So it goes like this, pick a sect, a church...like it? Go for it!

We can see from the Reformation (Catholic church split after Luther) to Fundamentalist-Sanctity-Restoration-Charistmatic Pentecostalism movements, a sequence of needed splits to spread the Gospel to a wider geographical and educational areas. The result is; souls are saved!

Good stuff guys!

People are diverse. But I think within a healthy church everybody should find his place. This is from Romans 12:

3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. 4 For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. 6 Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, [f]according to the proportion of his faith; 7 if [g]service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; 8 or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with [h]liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

9 Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; [j]give preference to one another in honor; 11 not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; 12 rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, 13 contributing to the needs of the [k]saints, [l]practicing hospitality.

I myself am still searching for church. My first try ended with not ending in a particular church. I am about to try again another church which is near where I live. Well, I hope I find at least on person "matching" to me. In first church I felt lonely. I do not need all people being like me, I will love them the way they are, it's good we have different gifts. I just need one great friend there.

I'm a Bapti-costal as I was raised in a Baptist church for much of my childhood and I always liked going to church but it wasn't until I was about 12 years old that I actually received Christ and was saved but even before then I liked to read the bible and I would ask pastors questions about stuff they preached about,etc and I remember feeling like the church I was going to was not preaching all of the bible that I would read about in it and it kinda bothered me and I would ask the preacher why he did not preach on this or that,etc and never felt like I got an adequate answer it was just excuses to me but I decided I was going to believe the bible and keep going anyway even if they didn't preach all of it,

then there was a time when I decided to try other denominations and I went to a Methodist church and liked it but they ate the Lords supper every sunday and I felt like this is serious stuff being raised a Baptist,we are to examine ourselves and yet everybody was partaking because everybody else and I felt like the meaning behind it was lost eventhough I liked the preacher and his preaching.Then some time after that I tried 7th Day Adventist and a few other kinds of churches like "the Vineyard" it reminded me of a church for society outcasts that don't fit the churchy type people but the preaching was actually good and teaching..The Catholic church is one I have never tried.

Then one time my brother invited me to the church he and his wife had been going to and he told me that they were going to have a guest preacher preaching and so I went and the preacher said I was going to preach on the rapture but God is leading me in a different direction,somebody here needs a word from God and as he began to preach it was about how there is no perfect church but that we need to still go and it was one of them messages that you know is speaking directly to you and I knew it was God speaking to me through him and was convicted because I always judge churches and nit-pick when I shouldn't as long as they are biblically sound.

well toward the end of the service he pointed me out, now I had never been to this church before and he said you young man stand up,so I did and he said the Lord has given me a word of knowledge concerning you and God has a work for you to do and you need to seek him he said but the Lord is showing me a bold fire mouth preacher in you and you need to seek the Lord because he has a work for you to do.And I knew it was for me except I am not an ordained minister and was not called to preach in a church.

Well I did what he said and God started preparing me and he got me along with him and I began really spending time with him and reading the bible like never before It was kindof like a John the Baptist in the wilderness type thing preparing me and eventually the Lord led me to do a work for him and I did that for 7 years and then God told me that was enough.

But I now prefer the Pentecostal church eventhough I can find flaws in it but I really like the freedom and liveliness to worship God anyway a person chooses to whether he wants to just stand there and pray or jump and shout it does not bother me to see people get excited about Jesus. So I am a Bapti-Costal and I still like good Baptist preaching as when it comes to salvation they are hard to beat not the Pentecostals don't but Baptists are better when it comes to salvation but they ignore the gifts of the Holy Spirit so I need both of them and not just one.

abelcainsbrother wrote:I'm a Bapti-costal as I was raised in a Baptist church for much of my childhood and I always liked going to church but it wasn't until I was about 12 years old that I actually received Christ and was saved but even before then I liked to read the bible and I would ask pastors questions about stuff they preached about,etc and I remember feeling like the church I was going to was not preaching all of the bible that I would read about in it and it kinda bothered me and I would ask the preacher why he did not preach on this or that,etc and never felt like I got an adequate answer it was just excuses to me but I decided I was going to believe the bible and keep going anyway even if they didn't preach all of it,

then there was a time when I decided to try other denominations and I went to a Methodist church and liked it but they ate the Lords supper every sunday and I felt like this is serious stuff being raised a Baptist,we are to examine ourselves and yet everybody was partaking because everybody else and I felt like the meaning behind it was lost eventhough I liked the preacher and his preaching.Then some time after that I tried 7th Day Adventist and a few other kinds of churches like "the Vineyard" it reminded me of a church for society outcasts that don't fit the churchy type people but the preaching was actually good and teaching..The Catholic church is one I have never tried.

Then one time my brother invited me to the church he and his wife had been going to and he told me that they were going to have a guest preacher preaching and so I went and the preacher said I was going to preach on the rapture but God is leading me in a different direction,somebody here needs a word from God and as he began to preach it was about how there is no perfect church but that we need to still go and it was one of them messages that you know is speaking directly to you and I knew it was God speaking to me through him and was convicted because I always judge churches and nit-pick when I shouldn't as long as they are biblically sound.

well toward the end of the service he pointed me out, now I had never been to this church before and he said you young man stand up,so I did and he said the Lord has given me a word of knowledge concerning you and God has a work for you to do and you need to seek him he said but the Lord is showing me a bold fire mouth preacher in you and you need to seek the Lord because he has a work for you to do.And I knew it was for me except I am not an ordained minister and was not called to preach in a church.

Well I did what he said and God started preparing me and he got me along with him and I began really spending time with him and reading the bible like never before It was kindof like a John the Baptist in the wilderness type thing preparing me and eventually the Lord led me to do a work for him and I did that for 7 years and then God told me that was enough.

But I now prefer the Pentecostal church eventhough I can find flaws in it but I really like the freedom and liveliness to worship God anyway a person chooses to whether he wants to just stand there and pray or jump and shout it does not bother me to see people get excited about Jesus. So I am a Bapti-Costal and I still like good Baptist preaching as when it comes to salvation they are hard to beat not the Pentecostals don't but Baptists are better when it comes to salvation but they ignore the gifts of the Holy Spirit so I need both of them and not just one.

John 15:2, ...and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. NKJV
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Believe it or not one of the best teachings I ever heard on the trinity was from The Vineyard church.