Why Are There Even Atheists?

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:17 am

Jay_7 wrote:
joshutup wrote:
numeral2_5 wrote:Nope, that's wrong, atheists are just stubborn.
Well, that would be another way to put it
Yeah

Atheist are the kind that let others think for them, they read a site on bible contradictions, and decide Gods fake, without even studying into it more and finding its just translation issues and mis-interpretation.

Because i have always found things that disprove God but i always take time to look into it even more and find out it doesnt disprove at all.

now, wait a second; what you are describing is just human nature, it is not a sole characteristic of atheists. many christians do the same thing with scientific research. and a lot of them are on this site, too.

Mystical · Post by **Mystical** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:09 pm

I've been thinking about atheists lately. I have realized that I've never met one. All the people I know who claim to be atheists are only repressing anger or disappointment, or rebellion towards God. I have yet to meet someone who really doesn't believe.

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:43 pm

Mystical wrote:I've been thinking about atheists lately. I have realized that I've never met one. All the people I know who claim to be atheists are only repressing anger or disappointment, or rebellion towards God. I have yet to meet someone who really doesn't believe.

yeah it seems to be more of a fad with teens. and sort of a rebellion against what they view as opression from more orthodox forms of christianity. there are a lot of christians in america and it is a very distinct religion, despite the variety of denominations. the ones who arent a part of this community either feel ostrasized from it or primal descrimination towards them because of their differences.

but there are a number of intelligent athiests, mostly within the specialized sciences. this is mainly due to a deterministic view of the universe based on observations that show that everything we experience has a cause and that it can all be explained in numbers and quantities. but i think these sort of people are jumping the gun on the conclusion, and that they are missing a vital part of reality, while still viewing a very real and legitimate aspect of our universe. in this i believe that most scientific experiments are extremely useful, but that most of the scientists conducting them should do nothing more than gather the information and make simple conclusions on it with as little interpretation as possible.

Brigham · Post by **Brigham** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:50 am

Why are there atheists? This question actually weighed on my faith for quite a time. I thought "For all of the evidence, the biblical accuracy, fine tuning, irreducibly complex systems, for all this, what am i missing that produces atheists?". Well it may sound dumb, but one little thing someone said answered it for me. They said, "Can science prove George Washington?". See its not that theres not enough evidence, its that they want ABSOLUTE PROOF. This is ok for science, but to live by it is very foolish, because you would also be skeptical of George Washington himself or the human conscious, seeing as you can never PROVE their existence, though there is substantial evidence lol. So really its just that most atheists have a flawed way of thinking, or have not examined the material for themselves.

God bless

-Brigham

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:55 pm

Brigham wrote:Why are there atheists? This question actually weighed on my faith for quite a time. I thought "For all of the evidence, the biblical accuracy, fine tuning, irreducibly complex systems, for all this, what am i missing that produces atheists?". Well it may sound dumb, but one little thing someone said answered it for me. They said, "Can science prove George Washington?". See its not that theres not enough evidence, its that they want ABSOLUTE PROOF. This is ok for science, but to live by it is very foolish, because you would also be skeptical of George Washington himself or the human conscious, seeing as you can never PROVE their existence, though there is substantial evidence lol. So really its just that most atheists have a flawed way of thinking, or have not examined the material for themselves.

God bless

-Brigham

its not inherently flawed, just different.

August · Post by **August** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:57 pm

Zenith wrote:its not inherently flawed, just different.

Because God exists, it is flawed.

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:07 pm

August wrote:
Zenith wrote:its not inherently flawed, just different.
Because God exists, it is flawed.

whether they are right or wrong, they still exist and that means they exist for a purpose. if god did not want atheists, there would be no atheists.

Jay_7 · Post by **Jay_7** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:47 pm

Zenith wrote:
August wrote:
Zenith wrote:its not inherently flawed, just different.
Because God exists, it is flawed.
whether they are right or wrong, they still exist and that means they exist for a purpose. if god did not want atheists, there would be no atheists.

God created humans, and gave them the choice to love him or not.

God didn't want atheist and he doesnt create atheist, they have free will and become them, but they could become christians if they really wanted to.

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:04 am

Jay_7 wrote:
Zenith wrote:
August wrote:
Zenith wrote:its not inherently flawed, just different.
Because God exists, it is flawed.
whether they are right or wrong, they still exist and that means they exist for a purpose. if god did not want atheists, there would be no atheists.
God created humans, and gave them the choice to love him or not.

God didn't want atheist and he doesnt create atheist, they have free will and become them, but they could become christians if they really wanted to.

i didn't say he created them. i meant that if he didn't want them then he wouldn't have allowed for their existence. but there are atheists so there must be some reason, even if it is to teach others that their path is wrong. but being atheist does not mean that you are wrong about everything, it just means that they look at everything from a different perspective, and sometimes that is a good thing.

Jay_7 · Post by **Jay_7** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:29 am

Zenith wrote:
Jay_7 wrote:
Zenith wrote:
August wrote:
Zenith wrote:its not inherently flawed, just different.
Because God exists, it is flawed.
whether they are right or wrong, they still exist and that means they exist for a purpose. if god did not want atheists, there would be no atheists.
God created humans, and gave them the choice to love him or not.

God didn't want atheist and he doesnt create atheist, they have free will and become them, but they could become christians if they really wanted to.
i didn't say he created them. i meant that if he didn't want them then he wouldn't have allowed for their existence. but there are atheists so there must be some reason, even if it is to teach others that their path is wrong. but being atheist does not mean that you are wrong about everything, it just means that they look at everything from a different perspective, and sometimes that is a good thing.

Yeah but you mis-unterstood me. What i mean is atheist arent here for a specified 'purpose', even though it does show us that we should follow God, but it wouldnt matter if there were none and everyone believed in God, but because thats highly unlikely that is why theres atheist, they have free will to be them or not to be them, they dont have a purpose, though you can find purposes in your life by knowing atheists.

Zenith · Post by **Zenith** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:28 am

Jay_7 wrote:
Zenith wrote:
Jay_7 wrote:
Zenith wrote:
August wrote:
Because God exists, it is flawed.
whether they are right or wrong, they still exist and that means they exist for a purpose. if god did not want atheists, there would be no atheists.
God created humans, and gave them the choice to love him or not.

God didn't want atheist and he doesnt create atheist, they have free will and become them, but they could become christians if they really wanted to.
i didn't say he created them. i meant that if he didn't want them then he wouldn't have allowed for their existence. but there are atheists so there must be some reason, even if it is to teach others that their path is wrong. but being atheist does not mean that you are wrong about everything, it just means that they look at everything from a different perspective, and sometimes that is a good thing.
Yeah but you mis-unterstood me. What i mean is atheist arent here for a specified 'purpose', even though it does show us that we should follow God, but it wouldnt matter if there were none and everyone believed in God, but because thats highly unlikely that is why theres atheist, they have free will to be them or not to be them, they dont have a purpose, though you can find purposes in your life by knowing atheists.

it is god's will that we are all different, and that we are able to freely choose who we are. this ever-increasing diversity allows for as many different thoughts and ways of thinking as there are people, maybe even more. an atheist can tell me something about the universe that I don't know because I might have been preoccupied with another thought. and the same goes vice versa. even if they don't believe in a christian god, they are still able to observe the world around us, and in doing so they inadverdantly know a part of god.

Resident Atheist · Post by **Resident Atheist** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:43 am

Mystical wrote:I've been thinking about atheists lately. I have realized that I've never met one. All the people I know who claim to be atheists are only repressing anger or disappointment, or rebellion towards God. I have yet to meet someone who really doesn't believe.

Now you have. My first post here btw.

From what I gather a new forum here was specifically to keep dissenters out, so if I disappear all of a sudden you know your moderator is as bigotted against atheists as some of the other people I've seen. Apparently we're all just ignoramuses who have never seen a bible, let alone read one...

I'll have you know I've known more than one atheist who has read the bible cover to cover more than once.

How many christians do you know who can say the same?

Mystical · Post by **Mystical** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:09 pm

Now you have.

I am more than certain not.

My first post here btw.

I that significant information?

From what I gather a new forum here was specifically designed to keep dissenters out...

Common error.

...you know your moderator is as bigotted against atheists as some of the other people I've seen.

Master as bigottry, are you?
Well, I sure hope you don't disappear!

Apparently we're all just ignoramuses who have never seen a bible, let alone read one...

Don't think that way about yourself. Try reading one.

I'll have you know I've known more than one atheist who has read the bible cover to cover more than once.

And that means what?

How many christians do you know who can say the same?

You're funny. Umm, more than one.

Resident Atheist · Post by **Resident Atheist** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:18 pm

I have to ask, why are there even atheists? I understand that they take practically ONE religion, Christianity, and try to make every piece of it seem false.

Actually atheists are only at odds with christians in this country because christians are at odds with atheists. If there were buddha's whitnesses knocking on your door, people trying to get "one nation under Krishna" in the pledge or "one nation under Allah" on our money, Jews trying to ban working on saturday (the sabbath) etc, then atheists (and christians) would resent the hell out of it.

Christians try to legislate their beliefs all the time, gay marriage, school prayer and abortion being prime examples.

Do atheists even read the Bible very thouroughly, take it piece by piece, break it down, analyze it, and so on? It doesn't seem so.

Not all of course, but barely any US christians do either. Most atheists, however, have coherent reasons for disbelief.

As far as I'm concerned they only like things from a scientific viewpoint which is a no brainer for atheists. If atheits are SOOOOOO SMART, why havn't they explainded why an eyeball works the way it does, I mean it can focus on distances clearly without readjusting but cameras have to adjust.

It DOES have to adjust, which is why you can blur your eyes and why you can't see for a minute when going from a bright room to a dark room, and why your eyes hurt when you do the opposite.

I think what a lot of atheists claim to have is a bunch of B.S.

Useless statment. 

We have a Bible that explains things in HUMAN terms NOT Godly terms, we are incapable of understanding that much. If we could, we would be God.

Argument from ignorance. "We are right, but we can't understand how we are". Your beliefs are based on similar assertions from other human beings who were in no better a position to know than you are now. "faith: n. Belief without evidence In What is told by One who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel."

-Ambrose Bierce.

Anthony Flew renounced his atheism BECAUSE he found that there HAS TO BE INTELLEGENT DESIGN on this earth.

No, he converted to deism because he believes there is. I doubt he's so arrogant to claim that he knows for a fact. He is also wrong btw, and is one biologist out of thousands. He also maintains that the existence of your deity is obsurd, referring to him as "an omnipotent oriental despot, a cosmic saddam hussein". Good to know you value his opinion so highly, lol.

He carefully studied evolution and intellegent design, put it side by side, and came to the conclusion the I.D. wins.

Actually ID can't win, not scientifically. Intelligent design is not even a valid hypothesis, let alone a theory. A hypothesis must be supported by experimentation, useful in making future predictions, have imperical data to support it, and most of all - be falsifiable. Science works like this. You come up with an idea, then you try purposely to disprove it. You figure out an experiment that can prove it wrong, and perform it with all of the safeties in order, like double-blind tests and such. Show me an experiment that can be peformed to show that god made a cell. Or a prediction can be made with that information, or a way to falsify the claim.

Until then it's not a hypothesis.

All science is, is understanding more of HOW the world works that the Bible doesn't explain and doesn't need to.

*Correction. That the bible contradicts blatantly and repeatedly.

If you are an atheist reading this, explain to me HOW, WHAT, WHY, miracles happen to people for a reason.

They don't. You interpret anything you can't find an easy explaination for as a "miracle" without testing the assertion. Like "ghost-hunters" going around looking for anomalies so they can say "see, a ghost did that", when if it were a UFO nut then aliens would be the "obvious" cause of the lense-flair or whatever.

You have to explain how something happened, then explain how you know it was god and not Allah or not someone's body healing themselves, etc. You can't say "I don't understand this, so I know exactly what it is!!" That's not logical.

Sure, the body can do weird and wild things like hallucinations and what not, but WHY are people SUDDENLY like a snap healed of something that is incurable? WHAT cause it?

Are the words "I don't know" in your vocabulary? Also, why is it that god never regrows destroyed brain-matter or regenerates severed limbs? I mean if prayer works and miracles happen, why isn't Terry Shiavo alive and well right now?

Why aren't any of the thousands like her?

Why? I don't beleive in true atheists. I look at atheists and see that they may seem to have a good life but do they REALLY? My brother is one and his life is difficult and is lousey even though he makes it looks like there is something great about being an atheist. There isn't.

Yes there is. Many great things. Losing faith, or not having any, makes you compelled to explore and understand the world. You feel a great compulsion to, and by going through that you grow tremendously. That, and you are immune to the effects of organized belief, and won't cause or enable any wars or the occasional genocide.

What is so wrong with FAITH?

It is blind by definition. I define faith as belief without evidence. When someone says "I believe this because of that thing over there", that is not faith. I think we can all agree there. Faith is belief in the absense of evidence, which is reckless as hell, since you can have "faith" in anything. I can have faith that you're wrong and you can have faith that I'm wrong. Doesn't help us find out who's right, does it?

It's not useful. If I say "I believe this based on that" then someone can come along and disprove "that" or explain it better, and correct my beliefs, if they're mistaken.

Rational thought, logic etc are self-correcting. Faith is blind and without direction. You yourself believe that 1.7 billion muslims have faith in about 10,000 things that are absolutely false.

(edit) If I offer your evidence to the contrary which you cannot refute your faith becomes delusion: Firm belief held in direct opposition to the evidence.

The Bible does not force us to have Christianity as a religion, it gives us the choice to not believe or believe.

It does offer incredible coersion (sp?). Blackmail, emotional and physical.

Now why would this be presented in the Bible? Maybe because as our lives progress we have an ultimate diccission to make before death. What happens if an atheist dies and sees God for himself, he will be screwed and knew he was wrong.

If god will torture me forever for spending my life striving to be a good person, help people and better the world simply because I happen to be honestly mistaken, then he is irrational and cruel, and just as likely to deep-fry you for the hell of it.

Besides, I don't see christ as the torture type, do you?

Atheists, me being a Christian, it is my advice that you should follow the Bible and see for yourself how fulfilling your life can be like counless other people have gone through.

My life is very fulfilling. It can be rough, but it's a rough existence. I care more about truth than comfort.

Even if the Bible was a fake which I doubt, wouldn't it be better to live a fulfilling life rather than a bitter one?

You're projecting your prejudices on others. I am not bitter, nor are most atheists. And even those that are are bitter about christianity, and happy, amazed and thrilled with other things. An atheist is only an atheist when he is standing next to a theist. Otherwise he is just another person, with an entire set of positive beliefs.

I mean, atheists can have tons of money and still want more, doesn't it seem like there just has to be more to life than this, I think so.

What are you even talking about? All atheists are greedy and only after worldly things? You're nuts.

As the Bible PROMISES, we will be rewarded for our earthy efforts if you are a Christian, and if you're not, you're ...!

So do over 300 world religions, which btw, also promise damnation for not believing with them.

So good luck rolling that 300-sided set of dice.

Resident Atheist · Post by **Resident Atheist** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:23 pm

Master as bigottry, are you?
Well, I sure hope you don't disappear!

Master as bigotry?

I said:

Apparently we're all just ignoramuses who have never seen a bible, let alone read one...

You said:

Don't think that way about yourself. Try reading one.

I don't. You didn't get that?

I said: I'll have you know I've known more than one atheist who has read the bible cover to cover more than once.

You said: And that means what?

That the assertion immediately above it is false.

How many christians do you know who can say the same?

You're funny. Umm, more than one.

Not nearly all, is my point. Maybe in Italy, but definitely not in the US. Here most christians are "John 3: 16" christians.

Evidence for God from Science

Why Are There Even Atheists?

Re: Why Are There Even Atheists?