Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote:Vino.

No vino for me. But if you're referring to my klown pic, he just got his tricycle smashed by a very inconsiderate bully. If your tricycle was smashed, I bet you'd be upset too.


Edit---here's the link so you can see:
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =4&t=37412

Oh, I see. It's just that I've seen that look before - it's usually the one someone has just as they're getting ready to hurl.

Philip wrote:
FL, I would think that, as long-time friends, they should also know of your Christian values and how important they are to you. Attending a ceremony that purports to unite two same-sex individuals sexually and in a supposed "marriage," shows approval for such a terrible ceremony, one that makes a mockery of God's very building block of society. IF these two ladies know you are a committed Christian and are truly your friends, why would they be shocked or offended if you begged off on an occasion/event that they surely must know goes against YOUR beliefs? Or are you only able to be friends wit them if you remain quiet about your own values? And as for your wife, who is she more worried about offending - two lesbians or GOD?

Well...you are right. Maybe I'll take a vacation...

FL

FL, I know you want to do what is best for everyone - and I hope that you will. Seems as though you might be caught between a rock and your wife? An uncomfortable place I've experienced as well.

No wonder the Klown looks upset!

Philip wrote:FL, I know you want to do what is best for everyone - and I hope that you will. Seems as though you might be caught between a rock and your wife? An uncomfortable place I've experienced as well.

As I was driving around today, I was thinking about your original advice and concluded that you are right. If we receive a ''wedding'' invitation, I'll write a polite explanatory letter explaining why I won't be attending; and I'll make a donation in their name to a Christian ministry that works with the LGBT community.

They won't get a ''wedding'' gift but they'll have the benefit of a tax deduction.

How's that?

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:

Philip wrote:FL, I know you want to do what is best for everyone - and I hope that you will. Seems as though you might be caught between a rock and your wife? An uncomfortable place I've experienced as well.

As I was driving around today, I was thinking about your original advice and concluded that you are right. If we receive a ''wedding'' invitation, I'll write a polite explanatory letter explaining why I won't be attending; and I'll make a donation in their name to a Christian ministry that works with the LGBT community.

They won't get a ''wedding'' gift but they'll have the benefit of a tax deduction.

How's that?

FL

I'm sure they'll be overjoyed.

Don't go to their "wedding". Then, making a donation in their name to a Christian ministry...talk about adding fuel to the fire.

You might as well just call Fred Phelps, and go hold up signs at their ceremony.

RickD wrote:You might as well just call Fred Phelps, and go hold up signs at their ceremony.

Fred Phelps...I like your idea!!! Got his number?

I was also thinking of having a cross burning on the lawn just outside their home. Since you're from the South, can you help me with that?

FL

I found this thread very entertaining and informative. I learned a few things about human depravity that I didn't know and had a chuckle at the banter.

To the OP. I'm also against Church influence over State. Right now it may seem like a desirable thing because the current regime mostly aligns with your world view but it may not always be that way and in some parts of the world it is not; there but for the grace of God ....


I posted before that my 'church' is sometimes a gay bar. I am a hetero woman who has had many friends that are gay and have explored same sex relationships. When I became a Christian I had to really search and pray about what I should do and believe about homosexual unions (sexual immorality is a separate issue that affects all of us and not all gays are
promiscuous). God wants me to show love and compassion to my brothers and sisters. Through my love and prayers they may be led to His word But it is not for me to judge them. We are all sinners. Is the man who commits adultery - even with his eyes - any less of a sinner than the man who has had a 23 year faithful relationship with another man? Jesus told us marriage is between one man and one woman. Let Christian marriage in church continue to reflect that teaching but leave the secular world to decide on civil unions. Let God deal with those you believe have sinned, but witness to them the love and grace of our Lord so they can come closer to him and find the path to salvation for themselves.

CazPerth wrote:I posted before that my 'church' is sometimes a gay bar. I am a hetero woman who has had many friends that are gay and have explored same sex relationships. When I became a Christian I had to really search and pray about what I should do and believe about homosexual unions (sexual immorality is a separate issue that affects all of us and not all gays are promiscuous). God wants me to show love and compassion to my brothers and sisters. Through my love and prayers they may be led to His word But it is not for me to judge them.

It isn't your job to judge them but if they are doing something that is wrong you do have a responsibility to warn them. The most dangerous enemies gays have are those who say they love them but encourage them to continue their sinful behavior.

Not encouraging or accepting the lifestyle but following the example set by Jesus when he engaged the Samaritan woman in conversation by the well. Not being Christ it will take us more than one conversation and there will be failures but it is where God has led me.

CazPerth wrote:I found this thread very entertaining and informative. I learned a few things about human depravity that I didn't know and had a chuckle at the banter.

To the OP. I'm also against Church influence over State. Right now it may seem like a desirable thing because the current regime mostly aligns with your world view but it may not always be that way and in some parts of the world it is not; there but for the grace of God ....


I posted before that my 'church' is sometimes a gay bar. I am a hetero woman who has had many friends that are gay and have explored same sex relationships. When I became a Christian I had to really search and pray about what I should do and believe about homosexual unions (sexual immorality is a separate issue that affects all of us and not all gays are
promiscuous). God wants me to show love and compassion to my brothers and sisters. Through my love and prayers they may be led to His word But it is not for me to judge them. We are all sinners. Is the man who commits adultery - even with his eyes - any less of a sinner than the man who has had a 23 year faithful relationship with another man? Jesus told us marriage is between one man and one woman. Let Christian marriage in church continue to reflect that teaching but leave the secular world to decide on civil unions. Let God deal with those you believe have sinned, but witness to them the love and grace of our Lord so they can come closer to him and find the path to salvation for themselves.

There's a lot of wisdom in this post, CazPerth.

To the OP. I'm also against Church influence over State.

Depends upon what we mean by "church influence." Christians voting their conscience per how they believe God wants us to administer our society, and according to His principles in Scripture - we're in a democracy, there's certainly nothing wrong in that. In fact, God wants us to spread His values, as we can and where we can. Democracy gives us the opportunity to enact some of our values through voting. If enough Christians would take that seriously, we would end up with better laws and leaders. Of course, voting per our Christian values is a tricky endeavor, our choices are often imperfect. But we should do as best as we can, when it comes to voting. Their is absolutely nothing wrong with collective Christian influence upon society. In fact, we are wrong not to exert such influence if we can utilize it according to Godly principles.

Is the man who commits adultery - even with his eyes - any less of a sinner than the man who has had a 23 year faithful relationship with another man? Jesus told us marriage is between one man and one woman.

No, these are no different. But as for your comparison, why do you feel the need to clarify the faithfulness of the two homosexuals, as if that is admirable or somehow makes them any more noble. It just means that they have been faithful to what God calls an abomination.

Let Christian marriage in church continue to reflect that teaching but leave the secular world to decide on civil unions.

Yes, we are in a democracy. Beyond our votes, the courts have great power. Our constitution-based structure means that freedoms often transcend our individual morals and worldviews. Nonetheless, we have to be careful about how we view civil unions and related issues. The more normalized such unions are, the far more reach into the lives of families the state will have. And especially when it comes to children and adoption, this is a very serious issue with life-long ramifications, so it doesn't JUST involve the adults in such a union. I think we are not far off from having multiple entities in legal marriages/civil unions. Legally, marriage may one day mirror small LLCs and other legal entities. Again, Christians should vote as we can (which has obvious limitations) - so that politicians appointing judges/making laws will hopefully make good decisions in their appointments and law making.

It is a big issue and one that is very complex for Christians because, our greatest commandment is to LOVE and we are warned NOT to Judge others.
Yes, we should judge their ACTIONS, but not them.
And Yet...
I believe that homosexuality is a "birth defect", a "deviant" from nature and I say that NOT in the emotional sense but the biological one.
Homosexuality is NOT in the best interest of the human species, for obvious reasons.
That said, what to do when two people that are of the same gender, fall in Love?
That is really the issue IMO because even heterosexual behaviour out of love is a Sin and on those grounds, homosexual is no more or no less.
Love is what unites two people and makes them one.

Eh, well... I found out about this recently. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/26/su ... ?hpt=hp_t1

In short, the DOMA was ruled unconstitutional.

The comments are quite a mix. Some calling it "The Future", some calling this "TRUE Morality", and others calling this flat-out wrong. And some comments accusing "religious" people of being crazy, etc... Some people reducing opposition to this ruling as merely being the subjective "dislike" matter.

Haven't seen all of the reactions here, but there's a variety of 'em.