Evidence for God from Science

As early as 1917 Harvey W. Scott wrote "That there is no definite affirmation, in the Old Testament of the doctrine of a future life, or personal immortality, is the general consensus of Biblical scholarship." The modern scholarly consensus is that the canonical teaching of the Old Testament made no reference to an "immortal soul" independent of the body. This view is represented consistently in a wide range of scholarly reference works.

According to Donelley, "Twentieth century biblical scholarship largely agrees that the ancient Jews had little explicit notion of a personal afterlife until very late in the Old Testament period, and only the latest stratum of the Old Testament asserts even the resurrection of the body." Scholars have noted that the notion of the "disembodied existence of a soul in bliss" is not in accordance with a Hebrew world view: "While Hebrew thought world distinguished soul from body (as material basis of life), there was no question of two separate, independent entities."

Gillman argues that..

In contrast to the two enigmatic references to Enoch and Elijah, there are ample references to the fact that death is the ultimate destiny for all human beings, that God has no contact with or power over the dead, and that the dead do not have any relationship with God. If there is a conceivable setting for the introduction of a doctrine of the afterlife, it would be in Job, since Job, although righteous, is harmed by God in the present life. But Job 10:20–22 and 14:1–10 affirm the opposite.

However, N. T. Wright suggests that "the Bible offers a spectrum of belief about life after death."

While Goldingay suggests that Qohelet points out that there is no evidence that "human beings would enjoy a positive afterlife.”

Philip Johnston argues that a few Psalms, such as Psalm 16, Psalm 49 and Psalm 73, "affirm a continued communion with God after death," but "give no elaboration of how, when or where this communion will take place."

Neyrey suggests that, "for a Hebrew, ‘soul’ indicated the unity of a human person," and "this Hebrew field of meaning is breached in the Wisdom of Solomon by explicit introduction of Greek ideas of soul.

Avery-Peck argues that..

Scripture does not present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul. The creation narrative is clear that all life originates with God. Yet the Hebrew Scripture offers no specific understanding of the origin of individual souls, of when and how they become attached to specific bodies, or of their potential existence, apart from the body, after death. The reason for this is that, as we noted at the beginning, the Hebrew Bible does not present a theory of the soul developed much beyond the simple concept of a force associated with respiration, hence, a life-force.

Regardless of the character of the soul's existence in the intermediate state, biblical scholarship affirms that a disembodied soul is unnatural and at best transitional.

Bromiley argues that "the soul and the body belong together, so that without either the one or the other there is no true man. Disembodied existence in Sheol is unreal. Paul does not seek a life outside the body, but wants to be clothed with a new and spiritual body (1 Cor. 15; 2 Cor. 5)."

The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul, is affirmed as biblical teaching by a range of standard scholarly Jewish and Christian sources.

The Blackwell Encyclopedia of Modern Christian Thought says, "There is no concept of an immortal soul in the Old Testament, nor does the New Testament ever call the human soul immortal."

Harper's Bible Dictionary says that "For a Hebrew, ‘soul’ indicated the unity of a human person; Hebrews were living bodies, they did not have bodies".

Cressey says, "But to the Bible man is not a soul in a body but a body/soul unity".

Avery-Peck says, "Scripture does not present even a rudimentarily developed theology of the soul" and "The notion of the soul as an independent force that animates human life but that can exist apart from the human body—either prior to conception and birth or subsequent to life and death—is the product only of later Judaism".

The New Dictionary of Theology says that the Septuagint translated the Hebrew word nefesh by the Greek word psyche, but the latter does not have the same sense in Greek thought.

The Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible says, "Far from referring simply to one aspect of a person, “soul” refers to the whole person".

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says, "Possibly Jn. 6:33 also includes an allusion to the general life-giving function. This teaching rules out all ideas of an emanation of the soul." and "The soul and the body belong together, so that without either the one or the other there is no true man".

The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary says, "Indeed, the salvation of the “immortal soul” has sometimes been a commonplace in preaching, but it is fundamentally unbiblical."

The Encyclopedia of Christianity says "The Hebrew Bible does not present the human soul (nepeš) or spirit (rûah) as an immortal substance, and for the most part it envisions the dead as ghosts in Sheol, the dark, sleepy underworld".

The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church says, "there is practically no specific teaching on the subject in the Bible beyond an underlying assumption of some form of afterlife".

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible says "It is this essential soul-body oneness that provides the uniqueness of the biblical concept of the resurrection of the body as distinguished from the Greek idea of the immortality of the soul".

The mortalist disbelief in the existence of a naturally immortal soul is also affirmed as biblical teaching by various modern theologians, and Hebblethwaite observes the doctrine is "not popular amongst Christian theologians or among Christian philosophers today.”

Lonewolf wrote:Martin Luther and the Anabaptists. Their view is that the soul dies, with the body to be recalled to life at the resurrection of the dead, or that the soul is not separate from the body and so there is no "spiritual" self to survive bodily death. In both cases, the deceased does not begin to enjoy a reward or suffer a punishment until Judgment Day.

Lonewolf wrote:Mr. B.W. am I understanding from you that when we die we resurrect immediately to either a heaven or hell? That the judgement happens for each right away at the time of death?

Jewish New Testament Commentary

Philippians 1:21-24

Consider the charge that New Testament faith is otherworldly, selfish, oblivious to this world's pains. On the one hand, death is gain (Php 1:21); and Php 1:23 teaches that when a believer dies he is immediately with the Messiah in some unspecified way (according to Php 3:21 and 1Co 15:35-58 he will later receive a resurrection body). This is better by far for Sha'ul himself than staying alive, precisely because eternal life is the Messiah (Php 1:21; John 1:4, John 11:25, John 14:6). Nevertheless, Sha'ul's choice is to remain alive "because of you" (Php 1:24), because the Philippians need him. Conclusion: precisely because of his Messianic faith Sha'ul does not ignore the needs of this world; though recognizing the benefits to himself of the 'olam haba, he chooses to minister to others here in the 'olam hazeh.


The Pulpit Commentary writes on this verse:

2. Death involves our immediate translation into Christ’s presence. "Having a desire to depart, and be with Christ." There is no ground for the supposition of a long sleep of the soul between death and the resurrection, however difficult it may be to conceive the conscious existence of a disembodied spirit. "Absent from the body, present with the Lord." To be with Christ implies:

(1) That we shall see him as he is.
(2) That we shall enjoy him when we see him in the fullness of joy that is at his right hand.
(3) That we shall never be parted from him. It is the glory of the heavenly state that believers "shall be for ever with the Lord" (1Th 4:17).

Lonewolf wrote:thank you for the scripture posted B.W.,

i have read the same passages myself, and i understand them under a diff light (interpretation), all except one, and that is the one written about in Luke 23:43

Lonewolf wrote:Question Mr. B.W.

Can you explain why it took 3 days for the resurrection of our Lord? As opposed to resurrecting right after death?
And since He rose up with His crucified body (although a glorified one), why do the rest of the saints who have died in the faith, why is it that their remains (decaying bodies) are still in their graves?

Lonewolf wrote:Please continue with the second part of the question as to why do the remains of the saints are still here with us till this day?

If the judgement and resurrection occurs at the time of death, then are there two bodies to a soul? One already with the Lord, and one still in the grave?

B. W. wrote:

Lonewolf wrote:Please continue with the second part of the question as to why do the remains of the saints are still here with us till this day?

If the judgement and resurrection occurs at the time of death, then are there two bodies to a soul? One already with the Lord, and one still in the grave?

Simple, God keeps his word. read Genesis 1:26, Genesis 2:7. He gave a body to Adam. That is a gift he will not renege on. Satan came and attempted to entrap God to go counter against this, destroy man and thus unable to keep his word to man (Gen 1:28) and thus not God true to himself and unable to keep his word. However, God designed human beings a tri-nature being. Whose spiritual makeup was fashioned with eternity in it as Eccl 3:11,14 mentions and note God is eternal too and in whose likeness was Adam fashioned?

Now, because of sin, death entered the world, yet, it is the death and decay and ruin of the body, not the spirit (or as Hebrew mentions the Shade) 'essence' of a person as they continue on either condemned or found righteous made by God's hand in a spiritual being state. I'll spare you the points about the prison house / pit mentioned in Isaiah 24:22 for the departed and the Paradise mentioned in Luke 16:16-31 which was emptied out by Jesus so now after his own die they reside with him in heaven as Paul mentioned.

In order for God to be true to his word and gift and callings to man in Genesis 1 and 2 - a Resurrection of the body will be needed at a future date and time mentioned in Rev 21:1 and Dan 12:1,2,3. The condemned go one place with a body and the saved go to another place with a body and there will be no more sin, death, sickness, etc as all things are now perfect. In order to make perfect, perfect, takes time to remove the dross from creation. With that, you can haggle with the Lord about. All very simple as it all comes back to God keeping all his promises, gifts and callings.

In that is where folks get confused as they miss that point about God and fail to connect the dots in a simple manner - 2 Co 11:3 NKJV thus confuse the bodily resurrection by soul sleep doctrine that refuses to see the eternity in the heart God placed in mankind. Such make complexity out of Luke 16:19-31 and in doing so fail to see that they are taking the simple absolute truth out of the text making Jesus a purveyor of secret inside joke Gnostic knowledge to get at the religious leaders to buttress soul sleep on. That takes a lot of words to explain and thus the purity and simplicity of Jesus is lost in their lengthy exposes.

I suggest you mull over what I written, and pray that the Lord enlighten you and explain how to properly connect the dots from scripture.

Blessings!
-
-
-

Lonewolf wrote:...Well again, thank you B.W. for taking the time and for your prayers, i can always use them. But plain and simple, sorry but i just don't read the same understanding on scripture that you have concerning the resurrection. Thank you though.

Peace