Evidence for God from Science

Abel, may I suggest that you use shorter sentences? That last paragraph is all one sentence and the grammar gets kind of scrambled. You dont want to lose your message
for no more reason than that its hard to read.

I know a lot of you think I am totally sold out to the Gap theory and it seems like I hammer on it a lot however to be honest I think every creation theory has truth in all of them and I actually think we need truth from all of them and I am kinda the same way when it comes to Christian denominations too as they each seem to have strengths and weaknesses.As I can see truth in YEC,OEC,Gap theory creationism and ID and I actually think it would be good if we could somehow as the church come together and reason this out and pick out the truth and shun the bad all in the name of uniting us to the truth of God's word.

I do think the Gap theory is the most truthful but I see truth in YEC and OEC too and a lot of the science in OEC is important for a Christian,but when it comes to Noah's flood YEC have a lot of truth about it I just don't like how they have to cram all of the evidence into just Noah's flood and only have about 4300 years to work with but they defend Noah's flood well and I think it is important.

I doubt this will happen though because each side has invested a lot of time,effort and money into proving their theory true and they seem to be like clubs Christians can join based on which one they agree with the most and people don't like to have to go back and change what they've been teaching as biblical truth.I believe one thing that hurts the Gap theory so much is it does not have a real leader out there who really knows how to defend it while also updating new scientific discoveries as we go forward and so it has kinda sat dormant in the church for awhile.

If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now and would probably have lost supporters as the Gap theory taught right biblically with the scientific evidence would make an evolutionist look silly in a debate where it is creationism vs evolution.Evolutionists cannot hide behind peer reviewed science like they do up against YEC,OEC and ID against the Gap theory and I would love to see it as a Christian.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

Two different takes on it; I just find it kind of sad.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

Two different takes on it; I just find it kind of sad.

If Gap theory had a leader like Ken Ham then it's probably more the case that you wouldn't even believe it.

Kurieuo wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

Two different takes on it; I just find it kind of sad.

If Gap theory had a leader like Ken Ham then it's probably more the case that you wouldn't even believe it.

Its true that he would be an extraordinarily poor rep. for any legit cause.

As for belief...

What any theory needs is solid data, and nothing known that is contrary to it such as to disprove / falsify it.

The "gap theory" as expressed is not a theory at all, its a hypothesis. Those too are subject to disproof, and that one does not stand up to actual examination.

I dont think our friend with the hypothesis is receptive to my suggestions, but a clear presentation does help. Another thing that helps is to not speak of things like
"prove a theory" which is such a tell for someone who is not familiar with basic science.

Lets be clear that the term theory is applied NOT just to science:
noun, plural theories.
1.
a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena:
Einstein's theory of relativity.
Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.
2.
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
Synonyms: idea, notion hypothesis, postulate.
Antonyms: practice, verification, corroboration, substantiation.
3.
Mathematics. a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject:
number theory.
4.
the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice:
music theory.
5.
a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles:
conflicting theories of how children best learn to read.
6.
contemplation or speculation:
the theory that there is life on other planets.
7.
guess or conjecture:
My theory is that he never stops to think words have consequences.

Anything that is a guess or conjecture or speculative CAN be called theory.

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

He has a lot of power and influence as most protestants agree with him.AIG is well known.

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

Two different takes on it; I just find it kind of sad.

If Gap theory had a leader like Ken Ham then it's probably more the case that you wouldn't even believe it.

Its true that he would be an extraordinarily poor rep. for any legit cause.

As for belief...

What any theory needs is solid data, and nothing known that is contrary to it such as to disprove / falsify it.

The "gap theory" as expressed is not a theory at all, its a hypothesis. Those too are subject to disproof, and that one does not stand up to actual examination.

I dont think our friend with the hypothesis is receptive to my suggestions, but a clear presentation does help. Another thing that helps is to not speak of things like
"prove a theory" which is such a tell for someone who is not familiar with basic science.

Falsification does not matter if you have evidence to back it up,however there is a way to make it falsifiable.You under-estimate it and you overlook how evolution is taught to society as a scientific truth,yet you are trying to back away and act like it is just treated as a scientific theory and based on the evidence I could say the theory of evolution is still a hypothesis after 150 years and the Gap theory that was around before evolution became so popular is still just as true as it was before evolution as the Gap theory was around before evolution became so popular. The bottom line is this evolutionists can preach and teach dinosaurs evolved into birds but because nobody has seen it happen or can demonstrate it happens then it is no different than believing in God who we can't see,yet still believe by faith.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

He has a lot of power and influence as most protestants agree with him.AIG is well known.

Maybe that's the case at your church, or Christians that you've known.

But "mosts protestants" do not agree with AiG or Ken Ham's views.

Kurieuo wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

He has a lot of power and influence as most protestants agree with him.AIG is well known.

Maybe that's the case at your church, or Christians that you've known.

But "mosts protestants" do not agree with AiG or Ken Ham's views.

Perhaps it is changing but yes it seems like everybody I know are YEC I also see them online a lot debating atheists and they give links to AIG,etc.And because I'm a Gap theorist I have to try to make my point but not cut them off at the same time.I'm respectful about it and try not to step on their toes,I try to work with them.I was not implying I think Ken Ham would be a good Gap theorist as I know what he thinks about it and I doubt he would change his mind I was just trying to point out how much power and influence he has with AIG and how he promotes it how it would effect evolution if there was somebody like him promoting the Gap theory.He wouldn't be called on to TBN to debate Hugh Ross if he didn't.But perhaps you are right,I didn't know.Do you have a poll?

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:
If the Gap theory had a leader out there say like Ken Ham for the YEC's,evolution would be in serious jeopardy right now...

Sorry... trying not to... laugh, but I can't... stop...

He has a lot of power and influence as most protestants agree with him.AIG is well known.

Maybe that's the case at your church, or Christians that you've known.

But "mosts protestants" do not agree with AiG or Ken Ham's views.

Perhaps it is changing but yes it seems like everybody I know are YEC I also see them online a lot debating atheists and they give links to AIG,etc.And because I'm a Gap theorist I have to try to make my point but not cut them off at the same time.I'm respectful about it and try not to step on their toes,I try to work with them.I was not implying I think Ken Ham would be a good Gap theorist as I know what he thinks about it and I doubt he would change his mind I was just trying to point out how much power and influence he has with AIG and how he promotes it how it would effect evolution if there was somebody like him promoting the Gap theory.He wouldn't be called on to TBN to debate Hugh Ross if he didn't.But perhaps you are right,I didn't know.Do you have a poll?

Sorry ACB, I'm half teasing and just playing with you.

I'd say it's just your circles.
There are a lot of Protestant denominations, and many follow after quite liberal theologies now-a-days.
To segment out Evangelical denominations and apply that to Protestantism really isn't being fully accurate.

And even within Evangelicalism, I'd question whether YEC is a majority, or at least the only main view.
Certainly, it wasn't a majority view in the International Council of Biblical Inerrancy (ICBI).
Look into that.

Though it probably is a majority view in Evangelical circles, I'd say it is evening out.
But that too, is just my perspective. I like you don't have hard facts and data.

abelcainsbrother wrote:[

Falsification does not matter if you have evidence to back it up,however there is a way to make it falsifiable.You under-estimate it and you overlook how evolution is taught to society as a scientific truth,yet you are trying to back away and act like it is just treated as a scientific theory and based on the evidence I could say the theory of evolution is still a hypothesis after 150 years and the Gap theory that was around before evolution became so popular is still just as true as it was before evolution as the Gap theory was around before evolution became so popular. The bottom line is this evolutionists can preach and teach dinosaurs evolved into birds but because nobody has seen it happen or can demonstrate it happens then it is no different than believing in God who we can't see,yet still believe by faith.

I am glad to see you did use shorter sentences.

I dont tho think there can be a productive discussion if you make up things about me. Please dont do that.

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:[

Falsification does not matter if you have evidence to back it up,however there is a way to make it falsifiable.You under-estimate it and you overlook how evolution is taught to society as a scientific truth,yet you are trying to back away and act like it is just treated as a scientific theory and based on the evidence I could say the theory of evolution is still a hypothesis after 150 years and the Gap theory that was around before evolution became so popular is still just as true as it was before evolution as the Gap theory was around before evolution became so popular. The bottom line is this evolutionists can preach and teach dinosaurs evolved into birds but because nobody has seen it happen or can demonstrate it happens then it is no different than believing in God who we can't see,yet still believe by faith.

I am glad to see you did use shorter sentences.

I dont tho think there can be a productive discussion if you make up things about me. Please dont do that.

How did I make up things about you? If I did? I apologize.I'm just going on what you've written.Evolution is propped up above all other areas of science and taught as scientific truth here,if it was taught like it is just a scientific theory I don't think we would have so many problems with it.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:[

Falsification does not matter if you have evidence to back it up,however there is a way to make it falsifiable.You under-estimate it and you overlook how evolution is taught to society as a scientific truth,yet you are trying to back away and act like it is just treated as a scientific theory and based on the evidence I could say the theory of evolution is still a hypothesis after 150 years and the Gap theory that was around before evolution became so popular is still just as true as it was before evolution as the Gap theory was around before evolution became so popular. The bottom line is this evolutionists can preach and teach dinosaurs evolved into birds but because nobody has seen it happen or can demonstrate it happens then it is no different than believing in God who we can't see,yet still believe by faith.

I am glad to see you did use shorter sentences.

I dont tho think there can be a productive discussion if you make up things about me. Please dont do that.

How did I make up things about you? If I did? I apologize.I'm just going on what you've written.Evolution is propped up above all other areas of science and taught as scientific truth here,if it was .

I dont think you meant any harm, but it is something you got wrong.

You under-estimate it and you overlook how evolution is taught to society as a scientific truth,yet you are trying to back away

Nothing I have said or would say in any way implies that, nor am I going to back away from anything I say. I dont just say things. I know science is badly taught.

Do you, tho, have a specific documented example of what you say?

None of it has anything to do with science as such of course. You are talking about what some ignorant people may say about science.

"Scientific truth.."
Science does not do truth. Truth is for philosophy or maybe religion. Not science.

If you meant "scientific fact" that is a bit better, but not much. A theory can never be a fact. Theory of evolution is a theory. The only time a scientist says fact, is something like "its a fact that this is my data".

What you mean by "propped up above all areas of science", I cant even guess. What do you mean?

We may have some sort of agreement in this next one...

taught like it is just a scientific theory I don't think we would have so many problems with it

Leave out the "Just" a theory, as theory is as far and high as science gets.

But sure, science is poorly taught in the USA. How many smaller countries are far ahead.