Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:TheQuestor,

Please change your profile to indicate you are not a Christian. You were asked before. Then an administrator changed it, and you changed it back.

This is the last time you will be asked to comply with this.

Thank you

The profile question, ask, do you consider yourself a Christian, the answer is yes. I also believe in the same evolution and big bang concepts, that the Catholic Church teaches in it's schools. I understand that some non Catholics, clearly HATE Catholic teachings and always have, but Catholic teachings are not going to change for people who believe in a 5,000 year old Earth.

Science will happen, with or without those who choose to remain in the unscientific past, one billion Catholics are moving, to a better future, where Catholics will help cure inherited evolutionary diseases and feed the hungry, with new foods, evolved from old ones, to not do these things is clearly against the teachings of Christ.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /18053509/

http://wheat.pw.usda.gov/ggpages/Wheat_ ... tFINAL.pdf

So, please keep both science, and genetic evolution in your prayers, that both of these may help feed the hungry, as Christ directed and led the example for.

I just changed the profile question from "Do you consider yourself a Christian?" to simply "Christian?".

TheQuestor wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:
Anyone can read the gospel, and interpret it as they see fit, and they do, or is there an iron fist that demands that all people believe the same things, in the same way?

Yes, anyone can interpret the bible anyway they like IN LIGHT of what it actually says.

If someone reads the Gospel and says it means that it is ok to commit adultery or to kill or steal, they would be 100% wrong because it does NOT SAY anything like that at all.

You can only believe in the Gospel if you believe the Gospel and there is only one Gospel no matter how many different ways the SAME THING is said, it is still the same thing (Gospel).

And, that is your interpretation. Is my assessment correct, or not?

Where do you get this idea, that others have read the gospel and said that, it is ok to commit adultery or to kill or steal, because they read the gospel? As you keep coming back to this, as though you need to disprove something, that was not said? at least not here, or by me.

You said this:

The gospel, seems to mean whatever someone wants it to mean...

I was simply pointing out that is NOT the case and gave you examples.
The gospel can NOT mean WHATEVER someone WANTS it to mean, that is just silly.

The gospel may be expressed in different ways, like we can say "what a nice red dress" and another say " what a bold color of crimson skirt" or another say "Her dress was like rubies".
They must still mean similar things and they can NOT mean whatever anyone wants them to mean.

Are there not people of other religions, and atheist, who can read the same gospel, as you, and get very different meanings, or laugh so hard that they find it hard to breath? Surely you must know that this happens. Thus the gospel, seems to mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

Or must everyone, believe exactly as you do?

Oh sure and some people refuse to believe the Earth is round and some will see a triangle and call it a square.
Doesn't mean they are right.

No, not everyone MUST believe as I do.

None of that changes the fact that the Gospel can NOT be WHATEVER someone wants it to mean.

And, that is your interpretation. Is my assessment correct, or not?

Where do you get this idea, that others have read the gospel and said that, it is ok to commit adultery or to kill or steal, because they read the gospel? As you keep coming back to this, as though you need to disprove something, that was not said? at least not here, or by me.

You said this:

The gospel, seems to mean whatever someone wants it to mean...

I was simply pointing out that is NOT the case and gave you examples.
The gospel can NOT mean WHATEVER someone WANTS it to mean, that is just silly.

The gospel may be expressed in different ways, like we can say "what a nice red dress" and another say " what a bold color of crimson skirt" or another say "Her dress was like rubies".
They must still mean similar things and they can NOT mean whatever anyone wants them to mean.

Are there not people of other religions, and atheist, who can read the same gospel, as you, and get very different meanings, or laugh so hard that they find it hard to breath? Surely you must know that this happens. Thus the gospel, seems to mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

Or must everyone, believe exactly as you do?

Oh sure and some people refuse to believe the Earth is round and some will see a triangle and call it a square.
Doesn't mean they are right.

No, not everyone MUST believe as I do.

None of that changes the fact that the Gospel can NOT be WHATEVER someone wants it to mean.

But that does not change, the fact that the Gospel means whatever one chooses it to mean. Some people believe that the Gospel is the work of Satan, are you claiming, that they can not believe this? You may believe that you can tell others what to believe, but you can not, if you try, you will fail, this is just the reality that you can not grasp.

Hi Questor

If the Gospel is making claims of absolute truth then it can only mean one thing, people may misinterpret that thing but that does not change the fact of what it actually means.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying absolute truth cannot be known?

cheers

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Questor

If the Gospel is making claims of absolute truth then it can only mean one thing, people may misinterpret that thing but that does not change the fact of what it actually means.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying absolute truth cannot be known?

cheers

Well, then, would you please share for us the meaning of the Gospel? And make sure that all decent Christians, from all religions agree with this?

If you think for a moment, you will understand that this is impossible.

TheQuestor wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Questor

If the Gospel is making claims of absolute truth then it can only mean one thing, people may misinterpret that thing but that does not change the fact of what it actually means.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying absolute truth cannot be known?

cheers

Well, then, would you please share for us the meaning of the Gospel? And make sure that all decent Christians, from all religions agree with this?

If you think for a moment, you will understand that this is impossible.

You didn't answer my question, it is only fair that to continue that you answer direct questions and then I will answer yours in turn.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Questor

If the Gospel is making claims of absolute truth then it can only mean one thing, people may misinterpret that thing but that does not change the fact of what it actually means.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying absolute truth cannot be known?

cheers

Well, then, would you please share for us the meaning of the Gospel? And make sure that all decent Christians, from all religions agree with this?

If you think for a moment, you will understand that this is impossible.

You didn't answer my question, it is only fair that to continue that you answer direct questions and then I will answer yours in turn.

In order for absolute truth to be known about the meaning of the gospel, all of the writers of the gospels would have to agree, which they did not. Also all of the readers of the gospel would have to agree as well, which they do not. So yes, the absolute truth of what the gospels mean can not be known, as each reader finds his or her own meaning. Religious leaders have been discussing the meanings of the gospels, since they have been written, and perhaps before. You are demanding that all people agree with your truth, which you refuse to state............

TheQuestor wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Questor

If the Gospel is making claims of absolute truth then it can only mean one thing, people may misinterpret that thing but that does not change the fact of what it actually means.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying absolute truth cannot be known?

cheers

Well, then, would you please share for us the meaning of the Gospel? And make sure that all decent Christians, from all religions agree with this?

If you think for a moment, you will understand that this is impossible.

You didn't answer my question, it is only fair that to continue that you answer direct questions and then I will answer yours in turn.

In order for absolute truth to be known about the meaning of the gospel, all of the writers of the gospels would have to agree, which they did not. Also all of the readers of the gospel would have to agree as well, which they do not. So yes, the absolute truth of what the gospels mean can not be known, as each reader finds his or her own meaning. Religious leaders have been discussing the meanings of the gospels, since they have been written, and perhaps before. You are demanding that all people agree with your truth, which you refuse to state............

Well since you didn't actually answer the question I asked, I will wait for the reply before continuing.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Questor

If the Gospel is making claims of absolute truth then it can only mean one thing, people may misinterpret that thing but that does not change the fact of what it actually means.

Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying absolute truth cannot be known?

cheers

Well, then, would you please share for us the meaning of the Gospel? And make sure that all decent Christians, from all religions agree with this?

If you think for a moment, you will understand that this is impossible.

You didn't answer my question, it is only fair that to continue that you answer direct questions and then I will answer yours in turn.

In order for absolute truth to be known about the meaning of the gospel, all of the writers of the gospels would have to agree, which they did not. Also all of the readers of the gospel would have to agree as well, which they do not. So yes, the absolute truth of what the gospels mean can not be known, as each reader finds his or her own meaning. Religious leaders have been discussing the meanings of the gospels, since they have been written, and perhaps before. You are demanding that all people agree with your truth, which you refuse to state............

Well since you didn't actually answer the question I asked, I will wait for the reply before continuing.

Are you a dictator, who must be obeyed? What happened to the free will of men that God respects? Then that is God, and you do not have to follow his lead, unless you choose to.

TheQuestor wrote:Are you a dictator, who must be obeyed? What happened to the free will of men that God respects? Then that is God, and you do not have to follow his lead, unless you choose to.

This is a discussion forum, if one does not answer a question then it is not a discussion and I am here to discuss, I am not forcing you to answer but I choose not to continue until you do.

Danieltwotwenty wrote:

TheQuestor wrote:Are you a dictator, who must be obeyed? What happened to the free will of men that God respects? Then that is God, and you do not have to follow his lead, unless you choose to.

This is a discussion forum, if one does not answer a question then it is not a discussion and I am here to discuss, I am not forcing you to answer but I choose not to continue until you do.

Yes this is a discussion forum, where people discuss what they choose, and have the opinion that they choose, no one here is required to answer your questions. You may believe that they must, but this obviously is not so.

Again, the gospel does not have a meaning. The gospels (plural) have many meanings, and different Christians and non Christians alike, will interpret these meanings differently. This has always been the situation, not understanding this, frankly seems quite egocentric and childish to me.

We also must follow forum rules, have you read them??

But that does not change, the fact that the Gospel means whatever one chooses it to mean. Some people believe that the Gospel is the work of Satan, are you claiming, that they can not believe this? You may believe that you can tell others what to believe, but you can not, if you try, you will fail, this is just the reality that you can not grasp.

What you don't seem to grasp is that the Gospel IS what IT IS , regardless of what anyone wants it to be.
People believed the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the Earth and none of that changed the fact that none of that was true.
What people believe the Gospel is does NOT change what it is.

So, no, the Gospel does not and can not mean WHATEVER one chooses it to mean.

In order for absolute truth to be known about the meaning of the gospel, all of the writers of the gospels would have to agree, which they did not

Please show us where the Gospel writers did NOT agree on the meaning of the gospel.