Evidence for God from Science

Audie:

your last sentence is kinda nonsensical, not the least because of your request for proof.

Not at all Audie, if you can postulate the mind is evolved by saying you cannot think of anything about the mind evolving that is not sensical ... then you should have no problem proofing that comment. If my last line is nonsensical, then your turning of the phrase begat it with innocuous content that... to this moment, is still not answered.

How do you know the mind has evolved ?

Audie wrote:RD, you simply assert that the mind is non physical, then walk away when challenged. Id say that may be the best move.

Audie, I realize my mistake now. I assume dualism to be true. And it seems you disagree.

That's why this is going nowhere. If you don't believe in God(a non-physical existence), then I can't expect you to agree that the human mind is in at least some respect, non-physical.

So, you can't recognize my question for what I'm asking, because to you, the mind has to be physical. Anyone that holds to the ToE as the be all, end all, would have trouble with anything spiritual. Hence, your reluctance to discuss philosophy.

So, like I said, it's a pointless discussion. Nevermind.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:RD, you simply assert that the mind is non physical, then walk away when challenged. Id say that may be the best move.

Audie, I realize my mistake now. I assume dualism to be true. And it seems you disagree.

That's why this is going nowhere. If you don't believe in God(a non-physical existence), then I can't expect you to agree that the human mind is in at least some respect, non-physical.

So, you can't recognize my question for what I'm asking, because to you, the mind has to be physical. Anyone that holds to the ToE as the be all, end all, would have trouble with anything spiritual. Hence, your reluctance to discuss philosophy.

So, like I said, it's a pointless discussion. Nevermind.

It sure is a nevermind if you are going to make up things about me.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:RD, you simply assert that the mind is non physical, then walk away when challenged. Id say that may be the best move.

Audie, I realize my mistake now. I assume dualism to be true. And it seems you disagree.

That's why this is going nowhere. If you don't believe in God(a non-physical existence), then I can't expect you to agree that the human mind is in at least some respect, non-physical.

So, you can't recognize my question for what I'm asking, because to you, the mind has to be physical. Anyone that holds to the ToE as the be all, end all, would have trouble with anything spiritual. Hence, your reluctance to discuss philosophy.

So, like I said, it's a pointless discussion. Nevermind.

It sure is a nevermind if you are going to make up things about me.

I thought it was accurate. What did I say that isn't true?

One can't argue the possibility of the immaterial with anyone that believes that the material is all the exists.

PaulSacramento wrote:One can't argue the possibility of the immaterial with anyone that believes that the material is all the exists.

Paul, that's where my error was. I wrongly assumed Audie believed in the immaterial.

Paul,

Since you believe in evolution, where does the human mind fit into the ToE?

Guys, this is not about Christianty decreasing.

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:One can't argue the possibility of the immaterial with anyone that believes that the material is all the exists.

Paul, that's where my error was. I wrongly assumed Audie believed in the immaterial.

Paul,

Since you believe in evolution, where does the human mind fit into the ToE?

Evolution doesn't address anything other than the changing of certain traits in living organisms.
Those traits must be quantified and observable in some way and the MIND ( not the brain) doesn't fall into that category.
As a person that believes that God instilled in all life the ability to adapt and evolve ( and this ability is currently called by some "evolution by natural selection"), I believe that the mind evolved as humans evolved.

What is the mind?

Mind:

the element of a person that enables them to be aware of the world and their experiences, to think, and to feel; the faculty of consciousness and thought.

or:

the element or complex of elements in an individual that feels, perceives, thinks, wills, and especially reasons. 2 : the conscious mental events and capabilities in an organism.

or:

(in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.:
the processes of the human mind.
2.
Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.
3.
intellect or understanding, as distinguished from the faculties of feeling and willing; intelligence.
4.
a particular instance of the intellect or intelligence, as in a person.
5.
a person considered with reference to intellectual power:
the greatest minds of the twentieth century.
6.
intellectual power or ability.

As you can see from above, even animals can, to a certain degree ( far lesser than humans) have a mind as well.

1over137 wrote:Guys, this is not about Christianty decreasing.

1over137 wrote:Guys, this is not about Christianty decreasing.

Thank you Hana. If it goes anywhere, I'll split it.

RickD wrote:

1over137 wrote:Guys, this is not about Christianty decreasing.

Thank you Hana. If it goes anywhere, I'll split it.

Now, you are forgiven

RickD wrote:

1over137 wrote:Guys, this is not about Christianty decreasing.

Thank you Hana. If it goes anywhere, I'll split it.

Please do Rick..... I am following this with great interest.

Evolution might be good at describing physical traits, but sadly fails to explain those immaterial parts of life like consciousness.

What would be great is if it could explain why it was likely that organisms of the kind that have consciousness would arise?
A theory that governs the emergence of consciousness as being inseparable from physical evolutionary processes via natural selection.

That is, not just saying it happens because we're obviously conscious beings, but really knowing why this or that particular arrangement of physical parts lead to a level of consciousness and intelligence.
To provide a complete picture of life that we see, evolution needs to explain these things in a manner consistent with itself, and not just account for physical changes over time.

In layman terms, we ought to be able to create Astro Boy.
A physical robot, biological or otherwise, that comes to life with its own real consciousness.
Not AI (artificial intelligence), but a true thinking intelligence.
The Omega Factor if you will and ever watched Astro Boy.

How do you know we outta?

EssentialSacrifice wrote:Audie:

your last sentence is kinda nonsensical, not the least because of your request for proof.

Not at all Audie, if you can postulate the mind is evolved by saying you cannot think of anything about the mind evolving that is not sensical ... then you should have no problem proofing that comment. If my last line is nonsensical, then your turning of the phrase begat it with innocuous content that... to this moment, is still not answered.

How do you know the mind has evolved ?

First, you do recognize the call for proof is unreasonable, regardless of what aspect of science?

I dont "know" the mind evolved. Evidence indicates that all life forms do evolve; assuming supernatural intervention
didnt go out with the discovery that lightning isnt thrown by Zeus, but perhaps it should have.

Lesser minds among other creatures exist, is it so hard to think they lamprey's mind evolved to what little it is?

I dont believe a lamprey is self aware, probably doesnt know its alive.
Chimps do show that they are self-aware. Baboons, probably not...?

Self awareness is an interesting mystery. I dont choose to assume its beyond investigation or understanding.

I also dont think the transition from non self aware to self aware is the vast leap that
necessitates or implies the supernatural.

I wonder what it was like, for each of us, when we did it as babies?