Evidence for God from Science

God does not require from anyone something they CANNOT do: A child cannot clearly understand his sin/guilt, his responsibility. Neither can those mentally incapable. I believe there is good reason to believe that children that die are instantly in the presence of the Lord.

I believe this too. And since their name was never blotted out they didn't need it written back in. Something I wonder.. are those people the ones He knew would always come to Him, so He used their lives (however long) for the benefit of other lives? This would seem to align with the theme

I don't see Romans 4 changing that the God Abraham had faith in was the one true God - of which Jesus is a part.

OK, for some reason I thought you were saying they didn't have faith in the true God. Or, that no one can have faith in YHWH outside of the gospel, which was the only reason why I brought up Romans 4, so nevermind!

I don't know... Certainly, there was no clear understanding of the Trinity, pre-Jesus.

I'll have to re-research some things. I don't think it was as clear an understanding as with the revelation of Jesus. But I remember from the back of my mind pre-Jesus Jews knowing about the personhoods of Elohim, although in a more mysterious way.


And It looks like I'm in agreement with you on the rest. Thanks for the further explanation, it cleared my confusions up. Just to respond to some of your questions in case they all weren't rhetorical :p

Paul even rhetorically asks how will people be saved without someone bringing them the Gospel.

I forgot this. Romans 10:14

Is this revealing mere ignorance of the answer? What? Is the Great Commission urgent or not? If so, WHY so? If people without the Gospel are saved anyway - why do missions at all? In fact, would not doing missions give people a responsibility and knowledge of God's requirement of faith that might doom those who nonetheless reject it? If so, wouldn't it be more eternally safe to keep such people in the dark about the Gospel - as their possible rejection of it would certainly doom them?

I'd say the great commission was necessary and urgent because Elohim works with us as partners to fulfill His plans and without the tools to share Himself (the gospel and us as tools) then people wouldn't know. So it's all a part of the plan which I think a main part has to do with the responsibility humanity has: to fulfill their existence as the Image of God, His representation and ambassadors to creation.

And again, I like how you fleshed this out with the points. It made it clear and I couldn't think of anything to add or reject. Right on!

Philip wrote:... I don't believe those pre-Christ understood this. If any did, we don't know for sure. The three that appeared outside of Abraham's tent in Genesis 18 - I don't know... Certainly, there was no clear understanding of the Trinity, pre-Jesus. Was there thirst and prophesied expectation for a Messiah? Of course.

Mallz: Do you know much about the Kabbalah? Or ancient Hebrew studies? The concept of the trinity was known pre-Christ.

Whatever the case, all tenuous at best, mostly very obscure, the Trinitarian nature of God was clearly not understood.

There is evidence that the ancient Hebrews understood the nature of God in Trinitarian terms.I posted much of this on this thread - The OT Concept of God

http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 22&t=33317

Adam, Eve, Cain, Seth, Enoch, the Patriarchs, Moses, and the Prophets had understanding of God's nature and passed this on. In fact John the Apostle writes in John 1:1-14 this tradition, Identifying Jesus as Messenger/word YHWH of the Godhead. Over time, yes, this knowledge faded but never went away. I may post more on this on the, The OT Concept of God thread as there is so much. The Old Testament is thoroughly Trinitarian in the Christian orthodox sense of the doctrine of the God.
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