Does God have faith in you?

[Nessa]

P.S the present comes from me

But does it..?

I'm not going to put it passed me that pantheism somehow slipped in. I don't see that's what I believe though, and I'm talking about more than Omnipresence..

Are you saying God is like a cake and I am a crumb?

[Mallz]

I don't know a good metaphor.. But that one sounds close!

[B. W.]

B.W.
I actually find that it is liberating to know God does not have faith in us during this mortal life.

B.W., He doesn't view us as mortals. He doesn't view or work with us based on who we are presently mortally and how we view ourselves. He views our future selves. We have the Holy Spirit dwelling and working in us. We will never be separated from Him. He can view us as our future selves only because of Jesus Christ. We already are overcomers, conquerors in Christ and through Him. And that is how we are viewed. Unbelievers don't have the Holy Spirit and are the walking dead. There is no faith there and can't be. But us, those who choose and were chosen, are able to accomplish great things for Him as He works in us. He has faith in who and what we are choosing to be (since He is in us and is a part of us)

I don't look at myself as a citizen of this world. Nor hold myself back from my old nature. Like the Trinity, our relationship to/with/in/whatever Him, is relational. And we are not looked upon as mortal beings, but a new creation waiting to be glorified.

You are right that is is He that works within us. God is faithful.
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[B. W.]

RickD
"We are made up of Himself"?

Mallz wrote:
Yes. How could anything exist without Him sustaining it? Everything comes from Him and is a part of Him (where does He get it? Himself). Something can't come come nothing. Everything we know, is stemming from and sustained by Him (and much we don't). There is no such thing as 'outside' Elohim. Which is why we are made up of Him, breath Him, eat Him, etc.

Sounds like pantheism. Me no likey pantheism.

Acts 17:26,27,28,29,30 expresses what I think Mallz is saying as well as Job 34:14,15 as well as Psalms 104:24-30 which is not pantheism...
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[Mallz]

Thanks B.W. ^_^

[RickD]

Ok, I'm curious. Could you help me figure out...

If everything is not made up of Him, (not saying divine in any way), then what do we belong to? Made up of? How can we be separate? I don't get it. Again, not sharing divinity..

I don't understand why you can't just believe God created things, including us. Why does He need to use Himself to create us? Why can't He create something out of nothing, ex nihilo?

[RickD]

P.S the present comes from me

But does it..?

I'm not going to put it passed me that pantheism somehow slipped in. I don't see that's what I believe though, and I'm talking about more than Omnipresence..

Are you saying God is like a cake and I am a crumb?

How about God is the potter, and we are the clay? The clay isn't the same substance as the potter.

[RickD]

RickD
"We are made up of Himself"?

Mallz wrote:
Yes. How could anything exist without Him sustaining it? Everything comes from Him and is a part of Him (where does He get it? Himself). Something can't come come nothing. Everything we know, is stemming from and sustained by Him (and much we don't). There is no such thing as 'outside' Elohim. Which is why we are made up of Him, breath Him, eat Him, etc.

Sounds like pantheism. Me no likey pantheism.

Acts 17:26,27,28,29,30 expresses what I think Mallz is saying as well as Job 34:14,15 as well as Psalms 104:24-30 which is not pantheism...
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But he seems to be going beyond that.

[Mallz]

I don't understand why you can't just believe God created things, including us.

I do

Why does He need to use Himself to create us?

Because He is where everything comes from? Because it's natural? No need, just is.

Why can't He create something out of nothing, ex nihilo?

I don't believe in ex nihilo. He didn't create from nothing. He created from Himself. That's how I understand it.

The clay isn't the same substance as the potter.

Agreed, but as we can see I'm a pretty horrible teacher. Good thing that's not my profession. :p

[RickD]

Mallz wrote:

I don't believe in ex nihilo. He didn't create from nothing. He created from Himself. That's how I understand it.

And therein lies the problem. Use the force young padawan. It will show you that ex nihilo is the path to enlightenment.

Now go take a shower, you scruffy looking nerfherder*!




*I hope you get the reference. Otherwise it seems like an insult.

[B. W.]

I know Mallz well enough to know that he is not a pantheist.

He is approaching things he is discussing from a Hebraic/Eastern Orthodox perspective which is largely unknown in the traditional western church mode of thinking. The Hebraic/Eastern Orthodox perspective goes back to Genesis 1:26-29 where it mentions humanity is created in whose reflection? and goes from there...

Hebraic/Eastern Orthodox understanding of the fall of man is that when sin entered the world as Romans chapter Five teaches, it diseased the human spirit, soul, and body with corruption and ruin. Jesus came and healed all our diseases as mentioned in Isaiah 53:1-12. The idea of disease/infirmities is not limited to physical only but also the soul and spirit.

Sin marred the image/reflection of God humanity was fashioned to be; therefore, from the Hebraic/Eastern Orthodox perspective, fallen humanity has a marred diseased ridden spirit, soul, body that only the cross of Christ can cure and needed to restore back to humanity the original reflection of God, God himself still see's in us. This is reflection/image of God is what Mallz is trying to convey all human beings have. It is scriptural and sound as well too.

God came back, by sending Jesus the divine Word (2nd person of the Trinity) to reconcile fallen human beings back to himself so human beings can be cured of the diseases of spirit, soul, and body by freely becoming partakers of the Divine Nature as 2 Peter 1:2-10 teaches by grace. This is a work in progress during this mortal life as it involves a personal relationship with the Lord trusting in him alone to cure what afflicts a person, that diseased sin nature, that mars the image of God that God freely gave humanity when he breathed the breath of life into Adam.

So from that perspective, there is still a hidden reflection of God in each human being that has become marred, diseased, ruined by sin. All still have the gift of life God gave and if he were to withdraw his Spirit, all flesh would indeed cease to exist. Mallz is speaking of that hidden marred reflection still in all human beings.

So let us now look at: Isaiah 53:5 NASB, But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

This perspective reads this similar to this: But He was pierced through for our transgressions (of Spirit), He was crushed for our iniquities (of Soul); The chastening (of Body) for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. (Made whole reconciled restored per Gen 1:26 so one enters into what Rev 21:1-27 mentions)

This is based upon what God says about himself being more than able to keep his word and carry out his intent Isa 55:11 and Isa 46:10 - read Gen 1:26 again and note the doctrine of the Cross of Christ and His Resurrection and might grasp what Mallz is attempting to say.

It is the same Gospel message spoken in a different way that is unfamiliar to those predominately brought up in western pragmatic, linear, theology.

I hope this brings clarity to the discussion...
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[Nessa]

I still do not see any evidence that what Mallz is saying is correct.

Im also going through some other information someone gave me relating to this topic

If we are the 'crumbs' then essentially we are 'little gods'..you really want to start going down that path?.

[Mallz]

Thanks again B.W. I'm a bit I don't know the technical terms and can't explain them

It will show you that ex nihilo is the path to enlightenment.

Actually, RickD, I'd like you to defend that with scripture. Because I don't see it anywhere..

Now go take a shower, you scruffy looking nerfherder*!

If we are the 'crumbs' then essentially we are 'little gods'..you really want to start going down that path?.

Please don't get hooked up on the metaphor, it's close but doesn't really do it justice.
The problem, is that we are 'little gods' in the sense we can de-nature and create abominations of Existence (started with the destroyer). Again, we do not have a divine essence. But we can house Him and be one with Him in that sense. Be very close to Him (to the point that Jesus is in us and we are in Him, very close union). Our very existence is an expression to creation for eternity of Elohims grace and love.

[Nessa]

If we are the 'crumbs' then essentially we are 'little gods'..you really want to start going down that path?.

Please don't get hooked up on the metaphor, it's close but doesn't really do it justice.
The problem, is that we are 'little gods' in the sense we can de-nature and create abominations of Existence (started with the destroyer). Again, we do not have a divine essence. But we can house Him and be one with Him in that sense. Be very close to Him (to the point that Jesus is in us and we are in Him, very close union). Our very existence is an expression to creation for eternity of Elohims grace and love.

Good! Cos I was about to eat myself

What do you mean we can de-nature ourselves and create abominations of Existence?
Surely you don't think we are little gods?

[Nessa]

Mallz wrote:

I don't believe in ex nihilo. He didn't create from nothing. He created from Himself. That's how I understand it.

And therein lies the problem. Use the force young padawan. It will show you that ex nihilo is the path to enlightenment.

Now go take a shower, you scruffy looking nerfherder*!




*I hope you get the reference. Otherwise it seems like an insult.

Sorry, I liked you by mistake ..darn thumb...and small phone...
Who is Padawan?

And who is that horse toronto? Was going to use a reference to him earlier...cant remember the rider tho