Evidence for God from Science

Hortator wrote:Further readings for the sincere seeker:

http://godandscience.org/apologetics/cr ... ering.html

Here is an essay on man-made evils: http://godandscience.org/apologetics/ev ... ering.html

And here is an essay on "natural evils" (which is one of my personal favorites by Rich Deem) : http://godandscience.org/apologetics/na ... icity.html

You never have to look far on this website

PaulSacramento wrote: You have to understand that the emotional problem of pain and suffering can not be addressed the same as the logical problem of pain and suffering and that is why through the ages ( the argument is not new and is one of the oldest arguments simply because it IS emotional) the response is different.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

To add to what BW said and to address the "all loving":
I think the hardest things for us to grasp ( and I was very guilty of this too and it was the reason that I was agnostic for so long) is that ALL Loving actually means ALL loving.
See, God can't NOT love because He IS love and because He is love, He loves ALL.
Even those that do evil.
More than that, because God "wants" ( and I put want in quotation for obvious reasons ) us to love Him and each other ( loving God is the only way to reach full human potential) God KNOWS ( of course) that love can NOT be forced or coerced and MUST be free.
In short, people MUST be able to freely choose to LOVE or NOT to love and God can't interfere in that no more than He can make a 4 sided triangle ( it is a logical impossibility for an all loving and all powerful God to disallow free will).
Those that choose to not love will then do hateful and evil things ( hate and evil is the absence of love).
They are "allowed" to those things, even at the expense of others because they CHOOSE to and God does not interfere for the obvious, logical reasons.

No all knowing and all powerful and all loving being can FORCE compliance to love because that go against the very nature of love.

There is pain and suffering in the world because people FREELY CHOOSE to inflict pain and suffering in the world.

PaulSacramento wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Nonsense. No, I really mean that, it is utter nonsense to state the Christian God (otherwise known simply as God or being or existence) doesn't exist. Complete nonsense. It is the equivalent of saying existence doesn't exist.

I really do NOT think that atheist grasp that simple fact in regards to the Christian understanding of God.
That is why they "make up" their own version of God and go about disproving the existence of THAT God.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Audie,

How can a really smart lady say such a stupid thing?

Kurieuo wrote:Rick, our world is just so chaotic afterall, clearly no telos to any thing within, no orderly laws or structure whatsoever. Just pure chaos and randomity.

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Rick, our world is just so chaotic afterall, clearly no telos to any thing within, no orderly laws or structure whatsoever. Just pure chaos and randomity.

Any reason in particular for this nonsense?

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:In my experience with atheists despite this stuff they claim about quoting the bible,like it is not going to convince them of anything until we prove to them God's word is true? Really we should just quote the bible and preach the gospel regardless of what they claim because no matter how much evidence we provide them showing them evidence and reasons to believe they just ignore it.All of this trying to prove the bible true to them is just a cop-out because they just play the denial game. No matter what evidence you might give them they just deny it.

The reason why they do this without realizing it is because it is they that have absolutely no evidence atheism is true and yet despite this fact it is they that believe atheism is true with no evidence at all and so no amount of evidence or reasons to believe or philosophical reasons,etc will convince them,because if they can accept atheism with no evidence? Then evidence will not be important to them and this is why evidence we Christians have given them will not persuade them.

Therefore we might as well just quote scripture and preach the gospel,I think we would have just as much of a chance of convincing them the bible is true than if we give them evidence. It is time atheists provide proof atheism is true because even false religions have more evidence than atheism does.

Atheists have absolutely nothing to bring to the table when it comes to evidence,they have nothing to hedge their bets with and yet they have willingly given atheism a pass for a lack of evidence while demanding we prove to them the bible is true. Evidence is not important to an atheist like they let on about,it is just an opinion at best they cling to without any kind of evidence that they choose to cling to and they choose to prop up their opinion over Christianity and religion.

Wish You could Hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwlzD6zqpgY

If a gappist really wants people to believe the bible the best he could do is
to keep his mouth shut, on both the gappistry and the insulting falsehoods you make up about
people and ideas about which you haven't a clue

abelcainsbrother wrote:

Audie wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:In my experience with atheists despite this stuff they claim about quoting the bible,like it is not going to convince them of anything until we prove to them God's word is true? Really we should just quote the bible and preach the gospel regardless of what they claim because no matter how much evidence we provide them showing them evidence and reasons to believe they just ignore it.All of this trying to prove the bible true to them is just a cop-out because they just play the denial game. No matter what evidence you might give them they just deny it.

The reason why they do this without realizing it is because it is they that have absolutely no evidence atheism is true and yet despite this fact it is they that believe atheism is true with no evidence at all and so no amount of evidence or reasons to believe or philosophical reasons,etc will convince them,because if they can accept atheism with no evidence? Then evidence will not be important to them and this is why evidence we Christians have given them will not persuade them.

Therefore we might as well just quote scripture and preach the gospel,I think we would have just as much of a chance of convincing them the bible is true than if we give them evidence. It is time atheists provide proof atheism is true because even false religions have more evidence than atheism does.

Atheists have absolutely nothing to bring to the table when it comes to evidence,they have nothing to hedge their bets with and yet they have willingly given atheism a pass for a lack of evidence while demanding we prove to them the bible is true. Evidence is not important to an atheist like they let on about,it is just an opinion at best they cling to without any kind of evidence that they choose to cling to and they choose to prop up their opinion over Christianity and religion.

Wish You could Hear
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwlzD6zqpgY

If a gappist really wants people to believe the bible the best he could do is
to keep his mouth shut, on both the gappistry and the insulting falsehoods you make up about
people and ideas about which you haven't a clue

Why bring up the Gap Theory?Deal with the truth about atheists and atheism.You know it is the truth,don't just ignore it because the truth hurts and ignore it because you don't like Gap creationism.Up until about the 1970's most bible scholars believed it and taught it and it is the most truthful creation interpretation to me and it does not diminish the truth I speak about atheists and atheism. In my dealings with atheists this is what I've run into time after time.

Kurieuo wrote:

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Rick, our world is just so chaotic afterall, clearly no telos to any thing within, no orderly laws or structure whatsoever. Just pure chaos and randomity.

Any reason in particular for this nonsense?

Same reason for this nonsense:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Nonsense. No, I really mean that, it is utter nonsense to state the Christian God (otherwise known simply as God or being or existence) doesn't exist. Complete nonsense. It is the equivalent of saying existence doesn't exist.

I really do NOT think that atheist grasp that simple fact in regards to the Christian understanding of God.
That is why they "make up" their own version of God and go about disproving the existence of THAT God.

Atheists like that coz they dumb.

Like bibs there who couldnt grasp what i said so he made up his own vrrsion so he'd have
something to savage.

He like that. Guess why I dont ever talk to him.

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:Rick, our world is just so chaotic afterall, clearly no telos to any thing within, no orderly laws or structure whatsoever. Just pure chaos and randomity.

Any reason in particular for this nonsense?

Same reason for this nonsense:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Your fellow travellers had to change what I said into something else
in order to make awkward attempts to argue against the obvious. You dont seem able to
say why (you think) it is nonsense. And you normally are so articulate!

Try again maybe? How do you detect a distinction between a non intervening
"god" who lets whatever, you know, que sera sera, happen, and one that
does not exist at all?

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Byblos wrote:

Audie wrote:The particular all loving god that christians visualize is of course indistinguishable
from one that does not exist at all.

Nonsense. No, I really mean that, it is utter nonsense to state the Christian God (otherwise known simply as God or being or existence) doesn't exist. Complete nonsense. It is the equivalent of saying existence doesn't exist.

I really do NOT think that atheist grasp that simple fact in regards to the Christian understanding of God.
That is why they "make up" their own version of God and go about disproving the existence of THAT God.

Atheists like that coz they dumb.

Like bibs there who couldnt grasp what i said so he made up his own vrrsion so he'd have
something to savage.

He like that. Guess why I dont ever talk to him.