Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:Bbyrd,

Please put a name to whom you're quoting. That way, those who are following along, can actually follow along.

bbyrd009 wrote:

RickD wrote:Bbyrd,

Please put a name to whom you're quoting. That way, those who are following along, can actually follow along.

ah, my apologies. thing is, Rick, there are no quote linkbacks here, and i like to avoid, like, nailing people to the wall, and prefer to speak generally if possible, so is there a way to achieve both? iow are you asking so that a notification will be generated, or so that one can (somehow) track back in the quotes, if they have lost the thread of thought? but i think i can adjust for both, sorry about that.

bbyrd009 wrote:|[ /quote]
In other words, paste the copied quote in the space where I've shown the red line.

It just puts a name to the quote, so we all can see to whom you're responding.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:...

ty for your opinion and time here, i seek to be as unobtrusive as possible, and sorry that my replies to you are not up to your expectations.

Try John 20:28 also.

bbyrd009 wrote:ok, i usually do that anyway, i thought, sorry.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:...

ty for your opinion and time here, i seek to be as unobtrusive as possible, and sorry that my replies to you are not up to your expectations.

Try John 20:28 also.

John 20:28
My Lord and my God!

ok look, i do not deny that God is the Head of Christ, and if one has seen Christ, then they have seen the Father, because the Father is Word, Breath, Pneuma, and Christ is our Intermediary, our High Priest, imo you, we, i am never, ever going to "see" God, iow, if you have seen Christ you have seen the Father.

But the passages that Christ Himself, gives us, in order to better grasp this relationship, cannot just be ignored, imo. We are to be Priests, also; we are to become gods. We are told to pick up our crosses, too.

So making Christ into Father is deficient in a way, and also making Christ into just another man, even a special man, is also deficient. The whole concept of "Intermediary" is what we are talking about here. i could argue against people who even pray to Christ--and maybe even Mary, too--and describe my understanding of how this making Christ into God is really just a way to lend Imprimatur to one's religion, "we have God, and you don't, so you are lost, and we aren't" or whatever, but i don't wish to do that anymore.

If you want to have as one of your beliefs that Christ is God, and you feel comfortable accepting this verse--which has no other Witnesses in Scripture, note; an important thing--on its merits, and avoiding a more holistic interpretation, that understands the implications of "why do you call Me good" (et al) in this context, and disregards that Thomas

(strangely, this comes from "the Doubter," not unlike the previous, Acts passage we just looked coming from Paul, disobeying the Spirit, while at the same time instructing on how to follow the Spirit; and these implications should be reflected upon, imo)

might easily be implied here to be just recognizing both of Christ's dual natures, nodding to both Jesus, and Jesus' Head, the Father, in this verse, then i am ok with that, it is just a belief, that you feel comfortable with, right now, and might even die believing, i have no problem with that.

But i would say beware, because the next step from there, that seems inevitable to me, is to put out some book about how all Muslims are lost, or all Catholics, or i guess in the case of a Trinitarian, all Oneness people are lost--though, i dunno there, Oneness people pretty much have the exact, same message, this "Christ is God" thing--finding an "us" and a "them," iow, and of course making oneself to be in the "superior" group, ok?

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:ok, i usually do that anyway, i thought, sorry.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:...

ty for your opinion and time here, i seek to be as unobtrusive as possible, and sorry that my replies to you are not up to your expectations.

Try John 20:28 also.

John 20:28
My Lord and my God!

ok look, i do not deny that God is the Head of Christ, and if one has seen Christ, then they have seen the Father, because the Father is Word, Breath, Pneuma, and Christ is our Intermediary, our High Priest, imo you, we, i am never, ever going to "see" God, iow, if you have seen Christ you have seen the Father.

But the passages that Christ Himself, gives us, in order to better grasp this relationship, cannot just be ignored, imo. We are to be Priests, also; we are to become gods. We are told to pick up our crosses, too.

So making Christ into Father is deficient in a way, and also making Christ into just another man, even a special man, is also deficient. The whole concept of "Intermediary" is what we are talking about here. i could argue against people who even pray to Christ--and maybe even Mary, too--and describe my understanding of how this making Christ into God is really just a way to lend Imprimatur to one's religion, "we have God, and you don't, so you are lost, and we aren't" or whatever, but i don't wish to do that anymore.

If you want to have as one of your beliefs that Christ is God, and you feel comfortable accepting this verse--which has no other Witnesses in Scripture, note; an important thing--on its merits, and avoiding a more holistic interpretation, that understands the implications of "why do you call Me good" (et al) in this context, and disregards that Thomas

(strangely, this comes from "the Doubter," not unlike the previous, Acts passage we just looked coming from Paul, disobeying the Spirit, while at the same time instructing on how to follow the Spirit; and these implications should be reflected upon, imo)

might easily be implied here to be just recognizing both of Christ's dual natures, nodding to both Jesus, and Jesus' Head, the Father, in this verse, then i am ok with that, it is just a belief, that you feel comfortable with, right now, and might even die believing, i have no problem with that.

But i would say beware, because the next step from there, that seems inevitable to me, is to put out some book about how all Muslims are lost, or all Catholics, or i guess in the case of a Trinitarian, all Oneness people are lost--though, i dunno there, Oneness people pretty much have the exact, same message, this "Christ is God" thing--finding an "us" and a "them," iow, and of course making oneself to be in the "superior" group, ok?

Thomas called Jesus God

Tom Saw Ya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_CcVBciyc8

The Word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foWfTX0_uHA

bbyrd009 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:ok, i usually do that anyway, i thought, sorry.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:ty for your opinion and time here, i seek to be as unobtrusive as possible, and sorry that my replies to you are not up to your expectations.

Try John 20:28 also.

John 20:28
My Lord and my God!

ok look, i do not deny that God is the Head of Christ, and if one has seen Christ, then they have seen the Father, because the Father is Word, Breath, Pneuma, and Christ is our Intermediary, our High Priest, imo you, we, i am never, ever going to "see" God, iow, if you have seen Christ you have seen the Father.

But the passages that Christ Himself, gives us, in order to better grasp this relationship, cannot just be ignored, imo. We are to be Priests, also; we are to become gods. We are told to pick up our crosses, too.

So making Christ into Father is deficient in a way, and also making Christ into just another man, even a special man, is also deficient. The whole concept of "Intermediary" is what we are talking about here. i could argue against people who even pray to Christ--and maybe even Mary, too--and describe my understanding of how this making Christ into God is really just a way to lend Imprimatur to one's religion, "we have God, and you don't, so you are lost, and we aren't" or whatever, but i don't wish to do that anymore.

If you want to have as one of your beliefs that Christ is God, and you feel comfortable accepting this verse--which has no other Witnesses in Scripture, note; an important thing--on its merits, and avoiding a more holistic interpretation, that understands the implications of "why do you call Me good" (et al) in this context, and disregards that Thomas

(strangely, this comes from "the Doubter," not unlike the previous, Acts passage we just looked coming from Paul, disobeying the Spirit, while at the same time instructing on how to follow the Spirit; and these implications should be reflected upon, imo)

might easily be implied here to be just recognizing both of Christ's dual natures, nodding to both Jesus, and Jesus' Head, the Father, in this verse, then i am ok with that, it is just a belief, that you feel comfortable with, right now, and might even die believing, i have no problem with that.

But i would say beware, because the next step from there, that seems inevitable to me, is to put out some book about how all Muslims are lost, or all Catholics, or i guess in the case of a Trinitarian, all Oneness people are lost--though, i dunno there, Oneness people pretty much have the exact, same message, this "Christ is God" thing--finding an "us" and a "them," iow, and of course making oneself to be in the "superior" group, ok?

Thomas called Jesus God

Tom Saw Ya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_CcVBciyc8

The Word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foWfTX0_uHA

yes, that is true, but it is pertinent to at least consider that Thomas might have been addressing Christ in a manner different than what we are led to read, as the form of "God" he used there suggests? http://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm

iow he didn't use YHWH, or even Elohim, etc.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:ok, i usually do that anyway, i thought, sorry.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Try John 20:28 also.

John 20:28
My Lord and my God!

ok look, i do not deny that God is the Head of Christ, and if one has seen Christ, then they have seen the Father, because the Father is Word, Breath, Pneuma, and Christ is our Intermediary, our High Priest, imo you, we, i am never, ever going to "see" God, iow, if you have seen Christ you have seen the Father.

But the passages that Christ Himself, gives us, in order to better grasp this relationship, cannot just be ignored, imo. We are to be Priests, also; we are to become gods. We are told to pick up our crosses, too.

So making Christ into Father is deficient in a way, and also making Christ into just another man, even a special man, is also deficient. The whole concept of "Intermediary" is what we are talking about here. i could argue against people who even pray to Christ--and maybe even Mary, too--and describe my understanding of how this making Christ into God is really just a way to lend Imprimatur to one's religion, "we have God, and you don't, so you are lost, and we aren't" or whatever, but i don't wish to do that anymore.

If you want to have as one of your beliefs that Christ is God, and you feel comfortable accepting this verse--which has no other Witnesses in Scripture, note; an important thing--on its merits, and avoiding a more holistic interpretation, that understands the implications of "why do you call Me good" (et al) in this context, and disregards that Thomas

(strangely, this comes from "the Doubter," not unlike the previous, Acts passage we just looked coming from Paul, disobeying the Spirit, while at the same time instructing on how to follow the Spirit; and these implications should be reflected upon, imo)

might easily be implied here to be just recognizing both of Christ's dual natures, nodding to both Jesus, and Jesus' Head, the Father, in this verse, then i am ok with that, it is just a belief, that you feel comfortable with, right now, and might even die believing, i have no problem with that.

But i would say beware, because the next step from there, that seems inevitable to me, is to put out some book about how all Muslims are lost, or all Catholics, or i guess in the case of a Trinitarian, all Oneness people are lost--though, i dunno there, Oneness people pretty much have the exact, same message, this "Christ is God" thing--finding an "us" and a "them," iow, and of course making oneself to be in the "superior" group, ok?

Thomas called Jesus God

Tom Saw Ya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_CcVBciyc8

The Word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foWfTX0_uHA

yes, that is true, but it is pertinent to at least consider that Thomas might have been addressing Christ in a manner different than what we are led to read, as the form of "God" he used there suggests? http://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm

iow he didn't use YHWH, or even Elohim, etc.

Did Jesus tell Thomas don't call me God? No and I think you skipped over Acts 20:28. Why don't you read Acts 20:28 and then explain what it is saying? Because it backs up Thomas calling Jesus God. Two pieces of biblical evidence you should consider.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Did Jesus tell Thomas don't call me God?

bbyrd009 wrote:... as soon as i start getting more specific, and asking you to justify how you can hold that Christ is God the Father, ...

Byblos wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:... as soon as i start getting more specific, and asking you to justify how you can hold that Christ is God the Father, ...

If that's your (mis)understanding of our position then you are arguing against a strawman for no one here (that I know of) holds the position that Christ is God the Father. And frankly you ought to know better considering the many years you claim you've studied the subject.

Byblos wrote:But enough with the vagueness of the so-called fruit (really, as if you're going to come up with some argument no one's ever seen before ).

Byblos wrote: How about you tell us who Christ is to you then? Who is this non-God who is able to save you and all of humanity? We're all ears.

Byblos wrote:

bbyrd009 wrote:... as soon as i start getting more specific, and asking you to justify how you can hold that Christ is God the Father, ...

If that's your (mis)understanding of our position then you are arguing against a strawman for no one here (that I know of) holds the position that Christ is God the Father. And frankly you ought to know better considering the many years you claim you've studied the subject.

But enough with the vagueness of the so-called fruit (really, as if you're going to come up with some argument no one's ever seen before ). How about you tell us who Christ is to you then? Who is this non-God who is able to save you and all of humanity? We're all ears.

bbyrd009 wrote:God is the Head of Christ