Evidence for God from Science

Salvation was extended to the Gentiles because the Jewish people refused to accept Him. See Acts 18:5 - 8 " When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ, but when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads !: I am clear of my responsibility, From now on I will go to the Gentiles."

The Jews are God's chosen people. The children of Israel. Anyone who doesn't accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior - by default - ends up in hell. Jesus Christ being God's Son. John 10:30 " I and My Father are One."

God deals with the Jews over and over in the Old Testament. Moses - through God- led the Children of Israel out of Egypt and to freedom. God choose Abraham in Genesis to leave his family and travel to an unknown place. The Promised Land.

The Jewish people have not accepted Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah. Jesus Christ's returning to earth for the 1,000 yr reign --for 'us' it will be His second coming. For the Jewish people it will be His first coming. They won't accept Him as the baby Jesus who grew up and died on the cross.

Sorry -- that got posted twice.

crochet1949 wrote:Sorry -- that got posted twice.

Wasn't technically it was so that Gentiles could get saved beforehand-only most of them rejected it bc of choosing creation?
Like there were a few Gentiles mentioned in the OT that were saved.

Being God's chosen people, per the Jews' genetic links to Abraham, NEVER saved anyone! ONLY faith in God did, which included belief in His promises of a Messiah to come (Jesus!). Abraham and saved, pre-Jesus arrival and resurrection Jews were saved per their faith in the true God (Who includes Jesus in God's Trinity) - it's just that God had not yet further revealed Himself to the point the Jews could fully understood about the pre-Incarnate Christ still to come. Once God further revealed Himself, through Jesus, with the REAL God Man doing astonishing things that all of Israel were talking about, rejecting Jesus was the equivalent of rejecting God as He truly is (as Jesus is), as He had revealed Himself. Plenty of Old Testament Jews were condemned by God for their lack of faith and commitment to Him.

"I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you" (John 8:37)

"They answered and said to Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus said to them, "If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham." (John 8:39)

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Sorry -- that got posted twice.

Wasn't technically it was so that Gentiles could get saved beforehand-only most of them rejected it bc of choosing creation?
Like there were a few Gentiles mentioned in the OT that were saved.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying -- that the Gentiles rejected salvation because of choosing creation? What do you mean by "because of choosing creation"?

In the big picture -- Everyone would eventually have salvation available.

We don't really know 'everyone' in the Old Testament who accepted the coming prophesied Messiah.

Some Thoughts

First, I think it is important to acknowledge that none of us has a perfect understanding about the person and nature of God. As finite and mortal beings, it is simply impossible for us to completely comprehend a God who exists outside of time and space.

However, throughout the history of mankind, the One True God has revealed truth about himself to mankind.
In the OT God revealed himself to all men as Creator God (El/Elohim) - see Romans 1:19-20.
God provided further revelation about himself to his covenant people (Israel) in the OT as YHWH ("I AM").
And then finally God revealed his glory to mankind when the Word (who was with God, who was God, and who created all things - see John 1:1-3) became flesh and dwelt among us.

When a person puts their faith and trust in the One True God they enter into a relationship with God which lasts forever into eternity.
So in the OT when a person put their faith and trust in Elohim or YHWH then they were 'saved' when they chose to enter into an eternal relationship with the One True God.
Today, when a person puts their faith and trust in Jesus (who is both Creator and God) they are 'saved' when they choose to enter into an eternal relationship with the One True God.

However, when a person rejects the truth about the One True God and rejects relationship with the One who can save them from their sinful condition (and everyone shares that sinful condition - see Romans 3:23), then they are choosing eternal separation from the One True God.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

crochet1949 wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Sorry -- that got posted twice.

Wasn't technically it was so that Gentiles could get saved beforehand-only most of them rejected it bc of choosing creation?
Like there were a few Gentiles mentioned in the OT that were saved.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying -- that the Gentiles rejected salvation because of choosing creation? What do you mean by "because of choosing creation"?

In the big picture -- Everyone would eventually have salvation available.

We don't really know 'everyone' in the Old Testament who accepted the coming prophesied Messiah.

In Romans Paul says everyone has a basic knowledge of God and the attributes of God through nature, if not revelation. God works through creation to get to people, however people choose creation. So, we see many pagan and Gentile groups worshiping nature and spirits or personifications of nature-like say a moon god.

DBowling wrote:Some Thoughts

First, I think it is important to acknowledge that none of us has a perfect understanding about the person and nature of God. As finite and mortal beings, it is simply impossible for us to completely comprehend a God who exists outside of time and space.

However, throughout the history of mankind, the One True God has revealed truth about himself to mankind.
In the OT God revealed himself to all men as Creator God (El/Elohim) - see Romans 1:19-20.
God provided further revelation about himself to his covenant people (Israel) in the OT as YHWH ("I AM").
And then finally God revealed his glory to mankind when the Word (who was with God, who was God, and who created all things - see John 1:1-3) became flesh and dwelt among us.

When a person puts their faith and trust in the One True God they enter into a relationship with God which lasts forever into eternity.
So in the OT when a person put their faith and trust in Elohim or YHWH then they were 'saved' when they chose to enter into an eternal relationship with the One True God.
Today, when a person puts their faith and trust in Jesus (who is both Creator and God) they are 'saved' when they choose to enter into an eternal relationship with the One True God.

However, when a person rejects the truth about the One True God and rejects relationship with the One who can save them from their sinful condition (and everyone shares that sinful condition - see Romans 3:23), then they are choosing eternal separation from the One True God.

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Interesting to notice how little kids tend to naturally accept there's a God. Studies have been done on this.

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:Sorry -- that got posted twice.

Wasn't technically it was so that Gentiles could get saved beforehand-only most of them rejected it bc of choosing creation?
Like there were a few Gentiles mentioned in the OT that were saved.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying -- that the Gentiles rejected salvation because of choosing creation? What do you mean by "because of choosing creation"?

In the big picture -- Everyone would eventually have salvation available.

We don't really know 'everyone' in the Old Testament who accepted the coming prophesied Messiah.

In Romans Paul says everyone has a basic knowledge of God and the attributes of God through nature, if not revelation. God works through creation to get to people, however people choose creation. So, we see many pagan and Gentile groups worshiping nature and spirits or personifications of nature-like say a moon god.

Romans 1: 20 -21 -- For since the creation of the world God;s invisible qualities -- His eternal power and divine nature -- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. People would look up into the sky and realize that the rain, moon, stars, etc had to come from Somewhere. They didn't have anything to do with those phenomena -- For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks for Him, but their thinking because future and their foolish were darkened. They made images Of rather than worshiping the God who made them.

I Think we're saying the same thing. Choosing to worship the created thing instead of the Creator.

Yes, little kids want to please people -- that's why adults have to be very careful --they mimic us. Ask a child questions to assess what They believe. During family devotions, a family had been talking about Jesus Christ and what He'd done, etc. After the fact, their little girl came up and asked them more questions -- and after That came back and told them what She had done. She had asked Jesus Christ to be Her Savior. So - they continued a conversation with her -- and continued with family devotions on various subjects and would ask her questions -- observing her over the next weeks or so. Then pastor had preached about baptism. And she approached her parents about Her being baptized. Again -- they waited a bit -- wanting to make sure it was Her honest desire and not following what the adults in her life Wanted. After a while - she was baptized. She was too short for the baptistry so they put a step-stool in it for her to stand on. So - kids come easier to Christ because they haven't had a chance to complicate their lives with all sorts of 'stuff' -- they Trust easier.

Even nice liberal minded Muslim at first say true Islam does not condemn Jews...yet they cry bloody murder at the USA for moving its embassy to Jerusalem all supported by the most vile hate toned speech imagined toward the Jewish people...

Islam is not a religion of peace...nor is their deity merciful either no matter how much they say their deity is - he is not - if so they would be merciful to all people who do not agree with them

They do not worship the same God as Christians and Jews...

...no matter how nice they appear at first.
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