Evidence for God from Science

I'm not defending Trump, but I find some irony that when, or more appropriately "if" (since its all hearsay) Trump made comments about Haiti, and yet one reason many areas in Haiti are still recovering from being a hole is because the Clintons got rich off them, swindled Haiti out of billions of dollars via their foundation (which was donated by gracious Americans who wanted to help Haiti recover from the earthquake which devastated it many years back).

Now, the Democrats and many left-leaning persons are on a high-horse about some comments that likely pertain to some silly policy of a random quota to let in a certain number people from certain "hole" countries without really evaluating need of whether such is still necessary, or even individually merited? (If you listen to Shapiro's talk I linked to, you'll understand more about this policy).

Yet, where were those who love trashing Trump when Clintons took advantage of Haitians? It seems to me no side really cares about Haiti, and one in particular is just full of hypocritical virtue signalling to try and look better. It's all about politics rather than people, and such is disgraceful.

Where was the mainsteam media reporting on the Haitians protesting against the Clinton Foundation? Actions speak louder than words, and it seems to me there is a bit of racism all around against Haitians, but the worse (if we delve into sides) is on the Democrat side backing the Clintons.

Who knows, perhaps Trump is starting a "Haitian" narrative -- isn't the Clinton Foundation being investigated? I wouldn't be surprised if a few weeks from now it starts being reported on how much they defrauded Haitians. He could just be prepping the narritive for now, and the Democrats have run away with it hook, line and sinker. Just a thought that crossed my mind.

Again, it's all disgraceful Haiti is being used for points without anyone really caring about the people themselves...

I don't get the anti-Clinton hysteria. Do you guys not understand how our government works? Three branches? Checks and balances?

If Clinton had won we'd have had 2 possible outcomes:

1) Bipartisan compromises
2) Partisan gridlock

I didn't include "Armageddon" or "USA becomes Venezuela" or any of that garbage on the list because it's ignorant nonsense.

But...but...but...THE SUPREME COURT!!!!

New Justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. So again, bipartisan compromise or partisan gridlock.

With that reality in mind, I think that Mr. Bowling made a reasonable choice. It seems to me that electing Trump might gain the GOP and social conservatives their precious Supreme Court pick, but cost them a whole lot more in the long run. Donald Trump is a human blooper reel. His impulsiveness, ignorance, and stupidity have been a year-long distraction from the Republican agenda.

If he'd had his [poop] together the GOP might have actually repealed the ACA but, despite spending the whole campaign bragging about how easily he'd fix healthcare, when the moment came it turned out that not only did he not have a plan, he didn't even understand the issue. And when the House got a repeal bill passed Sideshow Don took to Twitter and called it MEAN! Think that helped his cause?

The Republicans in Congress got their tax bill through despite him, not because of him, but now he's making it impossible for them to get anywhere on immigration, again because he doesn't understand the issue. When Diane Feinstein suggested that he back a clean DACA bill - in direct opposition to the GOP position and everything he's ever said about the matter - he AGREED! He completely reversed himself on DACA because Diane Feinstein told him to. ON LIVE TV! Kevin McCarthy had to cut him off to tell him that he didn't mean what he'd just said. Don't believe me? Watch the clip!

Not convinced? Read up on his FISA tweet. Hours before the vote to renew FISA - a move that his administration and most Congressional Republicans strongly supported - he took to Twitter to call the vote "controversial" and imply that he opposed it, then reversed himself again an hour later (after half of Washington called the White House in a panic). And the punchline? Apparently his doubts about FISA arose after he saw Andrew Napolitano criticize it on FOX and Friends. That sure inspires confidence.

And between gigantic, agonizingly stupid screw-ups like the ones I just mentioned he's spent the last year pumping out an endless list of reasons to question his work-ethic, stability, intelligence, self-discipline, knowledge and preparedness for the job. The "shithole countries" idiocy was the latest, but it won't be the last. By the midterm elections I'm sure he'll have done or said something stupider and more cringe-worthy. Probably several somethings, in fact. Trump might actually manage to lose Congress, and with all of the advantages the GOP has in the upcoming cycle that would be one hell of choke.

It seems to me that people like Mr. Bowling might just have anticipated that Trump would be exactly who he's been. They might even have questioned whether defeating Clinton would be worth the damage that Sideshow Don would likely do to the GOP and conservative causes. They might have been right.

Finally, here's a National Review article that says most of what I just said and a good deal more. Included it for anyone interested in hearing it from a conservative voice.

Wow, I agree with most of what Ed wrote And you, DB
And yet, I fully enjoy that Trump is our president and am glad he won

edwardmurphy wrote:I don't get the anti-Clinton hysteria. Do you guys not understand how our government works? Three branches? Checks and balances?

If Clinton had won we'd have had 2 possible outcomes:

1) Bipartisan compromises
2) Partisan gridlock

I didn't include "Armageddon" or "USA becomes Venezuela" or any of that garbage on the list because it's ignorant nonsense.

But...but...but...THE SUPREME COURT!!!!

New Justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. So again, bipartisan compromise or partisan gridlock.

With that reality in mind, I think that Mr. Bowling made a reasonable choice. It seems to me that electing Trump might gain the GOP and social conservatives their precious Supreme Court pick, but cost them a whole lot more in the long run. Donald Trump is a human blooper reel. His impulsiveness, ignorance, and stupidity have been a year-long distraction from the Republican agenda.

If he'd had his [poop] together the GOP might have actually repealed the ACA but, despite spending the whole campaign bragging about how easily he'd fix healthcare, when the moment came it turned out that not only did he not have a plan, he didn't even understand the issue. And when the House got a repeal bill passed Sideshow Don took to Twitter and called it MEAN! Think that helped his cause?

The Republicans in Congress got their tax bill through despite him, not because of him, but now he's making it impossible for them to get anywhere on immigration, again because he doesn't understand the issue. When Diane Feinstein suggested that he back a clean DACA bill - in direct opposition to the GOP position and everything he's ever said about the matter - he AGREED! He completely reversed himself on DACA because Diane Feinstein told him to. ON LIVE TV! Kevin McCarthy had to cut him off to tell him that he didn't mean what he'd just said. Don't believe me? Watch the clip!

Not convinced? Read up on his FISA tweet. Hours before the vote to renew FISA - a move that his administration and most Congressional Republicans strongly supported - he took to Twitter to call the vote "controversial" and imply that he opposed it, then reversed himself again an hour later (after half of Washington called the White House in a panic). And the punchline? Apparently his doubts about FISA arose after he saw Andrew Napolitano criticize it on FOX and Friends. That sure inspires confidence.

And between gigantic, agonizingly stupid screw-ups like the ones I just mentioned he's spent the last year pumping out an endless list of reasons to question his work-ethic, stability, intelligence, self-discipline, knowledge and preparedness for the job. The "shithole countries" idiocy was the latest, but it won't be the last. By the midterm elections I'm sure he'll have done or said something stupider and more cringe-worthy. Probably several somethings, in fact. Trump might actually manage to lose Congress, and with all of the advantages the GOP has in the upcoming cycle that would be one hell of choke.

It seems to me that people like Mr. Bowling might just have anticipated that Trump would be exactly who he's been. They might even have questioned whether defeating Clinton would be worth the damage that Sideshow Don would likely do to the GOP and conservative causes. They might have been right.

Finally, here's a National Review article that says most of what I just said and a good deal more. Included it for anyone interested in hearing it from a conservative voice.

Jonah Goldberg is a Never Trumper RINO.All you've got to do is read the comments to know that he does not represent the right or what a conservative is.Trump supporters own the internet even on liberal boards we dominate when we need to.Go ahead as a liberal and try to call Trump a racist again,but you should know that you liberals tried that althroughout the election and it got you nowhere and how you can think it will work this time,just shows that liberals can only lie and call you names and that is really all they do,and nobody believes them anymore.Trump is winning when it comes to immigration and on what he ran on too,it is the Democrats that are losing ignoring the American people,while still believing news media fake polls that were totally wrong and still are now.Please explain as a liberal why you expect only the American people to go by the law but not illegal aliens.Trump reached out to the Democrats and tried to negotiate but they would not budge like he was maybe willing to do,but Democrats would not budge at all and decided to put illegal aliens first instead of the American people.It is treason to abandon the US Constitution every Democrat swore to uphold and defend.You liberals may have got away with it for years because of very weak political opposition,but it stops now and we are restoring the rule of law in America.

Philip wrote:I can't imagine why anyone would want to risk Hillary getting into the White House - gambling with their vote on a no-chance candidate - UNLESS they deemed Trump and Hillary equally terrible - which I cannot see how anyone knowing the Clintons would think. But that's just me.

DB: However, we do need to sit back and realize who really sets up kings and removes kings.

Yes, but we are to do our part, God does His. It seems He often gives us what we collectively deserve.

A couple of quick points...
1. I did and still deem Trump and Hillary as equally terrible. From a moral perspective I consider them to be equally immoral and corrupt.
From a political perspective, I fear that the conservative cause may have won a skirmish in 2016 and we are seeing some short term gratification with Gorsuch and Tax Reform. But I still fear that Trump may end up costing the conservative cause the longer term war. Which I believe has the potential to be more damaging to the conservative cause in the long run.

2. I agree that we need to do our part, and God will do his.
In this case, "my part" was to follow my conscience (James 4:17) and vote for a candidate who shared my moral and political values.
Having done "my part" then I need to step back and be content that God will do his thing (which is not necessarily a natural or easy thing for me to do), whether I understand what he is doing or not.

edwardmurphy wrote:By the midterm elections I'm sure he'll have done or said something stupider and more cringe-worthy. Probably several somethings, in fact. Trump might actually manage to lose Congress, and with all of the advantages the GOP has in the upcoming cycle that would be one hell of choke.

It seems to me that people like Mr. Bowling might just have anticipated that Trump would be exactly who he's been. They might even have questioned whether defeating Clinton would be worth the damage that Sideshow Don would likely do to the GOP and conservative causes. They might have been right.

Finally, here's a National Review article that says most of what I just said and a good deal more. Included it for anyone interested in hearing it from a conservative voice.

I agree with a lot of what Goldberg says in your link.
This really jumped out at me...

But forget about 2018 or even 2020. The long-term threat to conservatism and, by extension, the GOP is profound. Young people — the largest voting bloc now — are utterly turned off to the Republican party. That doesn’t make them right, but that’s irrelevant. Their opinions are hardening every single day, even as old white people shuttle off this mortal coil.
...
When conservatives and Republicans rush to defend Trump’s indefensible actions, all they are doing is convincing more people that “Trumpism” isn’t confined to Trump. That damage won’t be erased by another record stock-market closing or an uptick in the GDP numbers. It will outlive The Trump Show for generations.

Goldberg's warning to conservatives and Republicans is also very relevant to Evangelicals and other Christians as well.

Ed,

I guess I'd say that I don't disagree with your point that Trump could turn out to be a disaster for conservatism. I felt that way when I voted. But my point is that we already knew what we would get with Hillary. And there was, and still is a possibility that a lot of positive will come from Trump's administration.

My entire argument is when faced with only two possible outcomes, we must vote for the lesser of two evils.

Let me put it into perspective. In a hypothetical, say instead of Trump vs Clinton, we have Clinton vs Bernie. Say Bernie was a third party candidate that made it to the general election, and the only two possible outcomes were either Hillary or Bernie being elected.

I'd vote for Hillary in a heartbeat. And that goes with saying that I think Bernie may have been the most honest candidate in the entire election.

Please explain as a liberal why you expect only the American people to go by the law but not illegal aliens.Trump reached out to the Democrats and tried to negotiate but they would not budge like he was maybe willing to do,but Democrats would not budge.

Abe, you're not describing the "liberal" position. What you're doing is regurgitating a talking point from the conservative punditry. The Dreamers didn't break the law. They were brought here as children. They had no say in the matter. Does deporting a bunch of people who came here as kids and know no other country strike you as a Christian act? And bear in mind that DACA requires them to report in to INS and to be either employed or in school. We're talking about productive members of our society who, culturally, are as American as you and me.

Regarding your point about the Democrats refusing to negotiate, that's a lie. Durbin had been negotiating with Senate Republicans for months. He went to the White House with a group of Republican senators to brief the President on a bipartisan compromise bill that could have actually passed in the Senate. He arrived to find a group of House GOP immigration hardliners waiting to contest the compromise bill. They were apparently there at the behest of members of the Administration who didn't trust the President to negotiate on his own. And having watched that video clip, I'd say they were right in their assessment.

Mr. Bowling, that stuck out for me as well. When I said that Trumpism could well result in a socialist political revolution that's what I was talking about. I think that the Democratic base is going to push old guard politicians like Pelosi aside by 2020. All the energy and enthusiasm in the Democratic party is with the new generation. They want universal healthcare, strong consumer protection, higher taxes on the wealthy, improved infrastructure, and free (or at least cheap) post-secondary education, and I don't think the Democratic leadership will balk this time around. That will be especially true if the GOP gets mauled in November, which they very well might.

Rick, I find it unlikely that the GOP will accomplish much this year. Trump is a clear liability and the majority party rarely dies much during an election year. Ryan's plan to attack entitlements is going to seem extremely risky for those incumbents who aren't retiring, and losing a Senate seat in blood-red Alabama is going to make them even more cautious. They might be able to save themselves with a massive infrastructure bill, but again, there's no leadership coming from the Administration and no sign that Republican lawmakers intend to go in that direction.

Long story short, I think Trump is going to hurt the GOP and hurt them badly. The irony is that a Clinton win might well have split the Democratic Party irreparably. Her policies would have been far more conservative than the younger Democrats wanted them to be, and the Congressional Republicans would have balked her at every turn. Oh well. Penny smart, pound stupid. Trump 2020!

RickD wrote:Ed,

I guess I'd say that I don't disagree with your point that Trump could turn out to be a disaster for conservatism. I felt that way when I voted. But my point is that we already knew what we would get with Hillary. And there was, and still is a possibility that a lot of positive will come from Trump's administration.

My entire argument is when faced with only two possible outcomes, we must vote for the lesser of two evils.

Let me put it into perspective. In a hypothetical, say instead of Trump vs Clinton, we have Clinton vs Bernie. Say Bernie was a third party candidate that made it to the general election, and the only two possible outcomes were either Hillary or Bernie being elected.

I'd vote for Hillary in a heartbeat. And that goes with saying that I think Bernie may have been the most honest candidate in the entire election.

What about Carson?

edwardmurphy wrote:

Please explain as a liberal why you expect only the American people to go by the law but not illegal aliens.Trump reached out to the Democrats and tried to negotiate but they would not budge like he was maybe willing to do,but Democrats would not budge.

Abe, you're not describing the "liberal" position. What you're doing is regurgitating a talking point from the conservative punditry. The Dreamers didn't break the law. They were brought here as children. They had no say in the matter. Does deporting a bunch of people who came here as kids and know no other country strike you as a Christian act? And bear in mind that DACA requires them to report in to INS and to be either employed or in school. We're talking about productive members of our society who, culturally, are as American as you and me.

Regarding your point about the Democrats refusing to negotiate, that's a lie. Durbin had been negotiating with Senate Republicans for months. He went to the White House with a group of Republican senators to brief the President on a bipartisan compromise bill that could have actually passed in the Senate. He arrived to find a group of House GOP immigration hardliners waiting to contest the compromise bill. They were apparently there at the behest of members of the Administration who didn't trust the President to negotiate on his own. And having watched that video clip, I'd say they were right in their assessment.

Mr. Bowling, that stuck out for me as well. When I said that Trumpism could well result in a socialist political revolution that's what I was talking about. I think that the Democratic base is going to push old guard politicians like Pelosi aside by 2020. All the energy and enthusiasm in the Democratic party is with the new generation. They want universal healthcare, strong consumer protection, higher taxes on the wealthy, improved infrastructure, and free (or at least cheap) post-secondary education, and I don't think the Democratic leadership will balk this time around. That will be especially true if the GOP gets mauled in November, which they very well might.

Rick, I find it unlikely that the GOP will accomplish much this year. Trump is a clear liability and the majority party rarely dies much during an election year. Ryan's plan to attack entitlements is going to seem extremely risky for those incumbents who aren't retiring, and losing a Senate seat in blood-red Alabama is going to make them even more cautious. They might be able to save themselves with a massive infrastructure bill, but again, there's no leadership coming from the Administration and no sign that Republican lawmakers intend to go in that direction.

Long story short, I think Trump is going to hurt the GOP and hurt them badly. The irony is that a Clinton win might well have split the Democratic Party irreparably. Her policies would have been far more conservative than the younger Democrats wanted them to be, and the Congressional Republicans would have balked her at every turn. Oh well. Penny smart, pound stupid. Trump 2020!

They did break the law as they came into the country illegally,which is breaking the law.And it is the liberal position to allow illegal aliens to break the law as Obama allowed illegals to come into the country.So stop denying it is the liberal position,it is.You liberals have always put illegal immigrants first over the American people and you did it all throughout the election and lost.Plus we have sanctuary cities in liberal cities,these are illegal immigrants and they oppose President Trump.So stop with the lies that it is not a liberal position when it is.The whole election was about legal or illegal imigration and Trump chose and ran on legal immigration while Hillary and you libs ran on illegal immigration,even claiming Trump would lose because of his position on it. So stop denying that liberals want to allow illegal immigrants to continue to flood the country,they are for chain illegal immigration as the discussion with Donald Trump revealed. you libs want to allow illegal aliens to break the law and it is treason.

As to your question about illegals born here and me being a Christian and sending them back,you're just trying to make an emotional appeal to this kind of a situation when it does not represent the full liberal position of wanting to allow illegal chain migration into the country.But you focus on children born here to make it seem like liberals only are talking about just children that were born here,when they are'nt just talking about children born here,but allowing chain illegal immigration into America. So your question does not represent the facts. But since they were born here,that makes them legal citezens,despite the law being broke.

It is not a lie that the Democrats blew the negotiation.They have opposed everything Trump has done,including legal immigration.Them Democrat Senators in the states Trump flipped from blue to red have totally ignored the American people and will pay a price for it.Also anybody who watches the negotiation with Trump and Democrats that I posted in this thread will see that he was totally in control of the discussion.You're repeating MSM fake news claiming they were worried about Trump negotiating,because he was great and he exposed the Democrats for who they are and it is all on tape.They are for illegal immigration and the discussion proves it.It is also why you libs are still trying to call Trump a racist.

DBowling wrote:

edwardmurphy wrote:By the midterm elections I'm sure he'll have done or said something stupider and more cringe-worthy. Probably several somethings, in fact. Trump might actually manage to lose Congress, and with all of the advantages the GOP has in the upcoming cycle that would be one hell of choke.

It seems to me that people like Mr. Bowling might just have anticipated that Trump would be exactly who he's been. They might even have questioned whether defeating Clinton would be worth the damage that Sideshow Don would likely do to the GOP and conservative causes. They might have been right.

Finally, here's a National Review article that says most of what I just said and a good deal more. Included it for anyone interested in hearing it from a conservative voice.

I agree with a lot of what Goldberg says in your link.
This really jumped out at me...

But forget about 2018 or even 2020. The long-term threat to conservatism and, by extension, the GOP is profound. Young people — the largest voting bloc now — are utterly turned off to the Republican party. That doesn’t make them right, but that’s irrelevant. Their opinions are hardening every single day, even as old white people shuttle off this mortal coil.
...
When conservatives and Republicans rush to defend Trump’s indefensible actions, all they are doing is convincing more people that “Trumpism” isn’t confined to Trump. That damage won’t be erased by another record stock-market closing or an uptick in the GDP numbers. It will outlive The Trump Show for generations.

Goldberg's warning to conservatives and Republicans is also very relevant to Evangelicals and other Christians as well.

There is no reason for you or Goldberg to feel like you do.The only way that I can see that Trump might ruin conservatism is if he fails to drain the swamp.Because if he does not drain the swamp then it won't matter who is in power and we will just go back to the same ol failed status-quo lesser than two evil political system.
However Trump will succeed in draining the swamp.We actually need good Christian men and women to think seriously about politics because we are going to need to replace the Senators and Congressmen that go to jail for pedophilia and corruption,like treason when Trump is done.We are going to have to have special elections to replace these scumbags so we actually need good Christian men and women to consider politics.Not only in our government,but our public school system is controlled by liberals also.We have much work to do as conservatives to make our country great again.It is time for liberals to experience losing when it comes to politics instead of always winning.

They did break the law as they came into the country illegally,which is breaking the law.

Oh my God, read a [love] book! ! Purchase a copy of "America for Dummies!" Get a damned library card and use it! NPR has a great podcast called Civics 101. Listen to it! Learn how our country works before you spout anymore ignorant foolishness! Abe, you make my head hurt.

Also, in the American legal system we don't hold children responsible for the crimes of their parents. So no, they didn't break the law. In my irritation I forgot to mention that.

edwardmurphy wrote:

They did break the law as they came into the country illegally,which is breaking the law.

Oh my God, read a [love] book! ! Purchase a copy of "America for Dummies!" Get a damned library card and use it! NPR has a great podcast called Civics 101. Listen to it! Learn how our country works before you spout anymore ignorant foolishness! Abe, you make my head hurt.

Also, in the American legal system we don't hold children responsible for the crimes of their parents. So no, they didn't break the law. In my irritation I forgot to mention that.

You are in denial about the law being broke.The Mexican government has taught its people how to come into our country illegally and then thwart our laws,for years this happened.Where have you been? It is you that needs to read and let go of the liberal propaganda from NPR. Also illegal aliens are going to Canada and realizing that it is even harder to become a citezen in Canada,as they have a merit based system,so does Australia.Why are you implying I'm for holding children responsible for the crimes of their parents? I just want them to come into our country legally.I'm just pointing out that the law was broken. But again,you're getting us off topic about what your party is for and it is not about whether or not we allow these children to stay or not.

Breaking! They broke the law! Trump just ordered their arrest.
https://youtu.be/ZRyBZG78gQo

Be careful, you can't blindly trust the news in America nor can you even tell opposing politicians from each other.

It is impossible to tell Alex Jones from MSNBC...

It is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between Lindsey Graham and Durban or Nancy Pelosi from John McCain

Next you have Cultural Marxism is alive and well in the news and in the USA and Canada Oh Canada, yes, Canada is awash in it! Europe is going down the toilet in in it.

Fact, Politicians lie and the Dem's lie all the time. My best guess is that Trump did not say what the Democrats said he said. They hate his guts and want him dead, period. Their hate holds an unbelievable level of vitriol.

Lets face it Democrats don't want America to succeed, prosper, increase Jobs, increase GDP, more wealth in working families and individual pockets, America safe and secure and great again. Period. They want illegal aliens and everyone on welfare, reparations, race wars, hate, controlled speech and absolutist control of aspects of a citizens life - they want us to be just like glorious California with is high tax laws and stupid laws.

Take your pick...

Trump is not a politician. So go figure...
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PS - here we go again: Interesting map
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-califo ... -of-state/