Evidence for God from Science

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:57 pm Why give the Dems a free ride? They're equally to blame for a shutdown, over something they have themselves stated was needed in the past and would help border security. I see Dems just blocking because they know it was a promise Trump made during the campaign, which is petty.

But, Trump will get the wall, and he'll likely work out a way to make the Dems pay for blocking (because he seems to love payback). Right now, it is rather honourable I think, that Trump stopped the political game to allow public employees to be backpaid. He is willing to give in, let Dems win, to not put many public employees out more than they have been. And, it seems to me that Trump has been making many offerings to Dems, which I see they just rejected because they don't want to let Trump come through on a campaign promise.

Both sides could have looked good, Dems could have gotten some items on their agenda pushed through, now Trump will just get his way anyway and Dems will likely end up with nothing. That is what I'd call being stupid and childish. Blinded by their hatred and contempt of Trump.

I must say that you are more informed than alot of Americans are.By the way I rely on a fellow Australian to get new Q posts.He lives in Australia and just reports on new Q posts and he gives his opinion,but does'nt really tell you how to think.When Q is not posting he just focuses on news and gives his views on it.I love Stroppy ME in Australia. He is helping to inform Americans from Australia.

At this point, it doesn't really matter who is at fault or what he or they shoulda done. What matters right now is all parties need to negotiate, compromise, and get it done. Both sides and acting as if each can force the other so as to get all they want. So, all we'll have is more fire, steam and smoke, but nothing will have changed. Only dictators can get away with no compromise!

abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:02 pmWhy the unsults?

Those weren't insults. I don't know how old you are. I don't know if you live with your parents. All I know is that you don't seem to see the loss of a month's pay as a big deal. People who think like that are generally either independently wealthy or getting their bills paid by somebody else.

So who are you? What do you do? Where do you live?

Heck, I'll go first. My name is Jay. I'm a former middle school teacher who now splits time between being a stay-at-home dad and working with challenging teen doofuses. I live in New Hampshire.

And you, Abe...?

Did not Trump change wall to a steel fence as somewhat of a compromise? Wasn't his initial desire for 10 billion+ rather than cutting it in half to 5 billion? (which as Ed pointed out earlier probably isn't enough anyhow)

I admit, I don't follow MSM at all, and for good reason I think considering how much garbage they spew and division they seek to cause by pushing sore spot issues with their base to garner support and outrage against Trump.

Yet, I understand that Trump offered protection for DACA dreamers, 800 million for humanitarian aid, extra funding to get immigration cases moving, BUT it wasn't good enough for the Dems and there were no compromises their side. I also saw the smugness that Pelosi and Schumer had, when Trump had a press briefing with them there re: their initial talks.

Seriously $5 billion is nothing compared to everything else. There's just no reason not to allow it, except that they (the Dems) don't want Trump delivering a wall to his voters. They know damn well that if Trump doesn't deliver a wall, or get it in motion, then Trump will be in trouble going to the next election. It's so obvious. That's the way I see matters.

Now as for Trump, guaranteed he's not happy. I don't think he's the type to give his opposition an edge, unless he's got a double-loaded shotgun cocked and ready. And, I dare say, that is the case right now. I'll be surprised if Trump doesn't get his wall in the end, and when/if he does, then he's won the next elections.

abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:03 pm

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:57 pm Why give the Dems a free ride? They're equally to blame for a shutdown, over something they have themselves stated was needed in the past and would help border security. I see Dems just blocking because they know it was a promise Trump made during the campaign, which is petty.

But, Trump will get the wall, and he'll likely work out a way to make the Dems pay for blocking (because he seems to love payback). Right now, it is rather honourable I think, that Trump stopped the political game to allow public employees to be backpaid. He is willing to give in, let Dems win, to not put many public employees out more than they have been. And, it seems to me that Trump has been making many offerings to Dems, which I see they just rejected because they don't want to let Trump come through on a campaign promise.

Both sides could have looked good, Dems could have gotten some items on their agenda pushed through, now Trump will just get his way anyway and Dems will likely end up with nothing. That is what I'd call being stupid and childish. Blinded by their hatred and contempt of Trump.

I must say that you are more informed than alot of Americans are.By the way I rely on a fellow Australian to get new Q posts.He lives in Australia and just reports on new Q posts and he gives his opinion,but does'nt really tell you how to think.When Q is not posting he just focuses on news and gives his views on it.I love Stroppy ME in Australia. He is helping to inform Americans from Australia.

My opinions are my own, well from however I've managed to digest it watching press briefings, probably Fox here, CNN there (as much as I don't like to admit), and many Youtubers in between who are always getting recommended to me by YouTube.

I don't know who any of those names are, but Australians aren't by any means on top of anything. Also, Q -- I still don't know much about what this Q stuff is all about -- but wasn't Q shown to a big lie and cherade?

Trump knows that no wall likely means, no 2nd term. So, I wouldn't be surprised if he feels forced to choose the nuclear option: Declare a national emergency and then order the military to build it.

What I'd like to see discussed is why those who obviously know of the immense crime, drugs and illegals just streaming across at will, as to why they don't see these as huge problems, and a potential security threat beyond even that? Should we just declare the end of our immigration policies and tell anyone who wants to come on in? Have they looked at the crime statistics In the U.S towns along the border - because they reveal a horrible problem.

So, there's either a problem or not. And so politicians can either ignore it or implement solutions to deal with it. As why would we not want a safe, secure border? And lest one forgets, if illegals (not those law-abiding who have been here for decades / have an application process for them and for those that were are brought here as children) are all declared welcome and legal, then the costs to our citizens will be hugely impacted and our own poor already straining our resources would have far less of it available.

And if we agree as to the he magnitude and dangers of the problem, then it should be addressed as the serious problem it is, and that continues to grow. And then the question becomes, what are the most efficient and cost-effective options to deal with it. Of course, no one measure can stop all illegals crossing over. But if a wall would be highly effective, particularly at certain strategic points and of varying lengths, why wouldn't one see it as reasonable to pursue. Because I think a lot of the opposition to it is mostly emotionally driven and that doesn't perceive the dangers posed by a unsecured border.

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 amWhat I'd like to see discussed is why those who obviously know of the immense crime, drugs and illegals just streaming across at will, as to why they don't see these as huge problems, and a potential security threat beyond even that?

Perhaps because that's not an accurate assessment of the overall situation?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 amShould we just declare the end of our immigration policies and tell anyone who wants to come on in?

I don't think that's likely since nobody is advocating that we do anything even remotely similar to that. The actual debate isn't even over whether or not we should improve border security - which pretty much everybody thinks we should - it's over how we should go about it.

Honestly, Phil...

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 amHave they looked at the crime statistics In the U.S towns along the border - because they reveal a horrible problem.

Really?

According to the CATO Institute Crime Along the Mexican Border Is Lower Than in the Rest of the Country. They also claim that Mexico Is Not Sending Its Murderers.

And before Abe pops in and says this is liberal nonsense, here's a description of the CATO Institute:

The Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think tank — dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets, and peace. Its scholars and analysts conduct independent, nonpartisan research on a wide range of policy issues.

This is hilarious!

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:12 am

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 amWhat I'd like to see discussed is why those who obviously know of the immense crime, drugs and illegals just streaming across at will, as to why they don't see these as huge problems, and a potential security threat beyond even that?

Perhaps because that's not an accurate assessment of the overall situation?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 amShould we just declare the end of our immigration policies and tell anyone who wants to come on in?

I don't think that's likely since nobody is advocating that we do anything even remotely similar to that. The actual debate isn't even over whether or not we should improve border security - which pretty much everybody thinks we should - it's over how we should go about it.

Honestly, Phil...

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:10 amHave they looked at the crime statistics In the U.S towns along the border - because they reveal a horrible problem.

Really?

According to the CATO Institute Crime Along the Mexican Border Is Lower Than in the Rest of the Country. They also claim that Mexico Is Not Sending Its Murderers.

And before Abe pops in and says this is liberal nonsense, here's a description of the CATO Institute:

The Cato Institute is a public policy research organization — a think tank — dedicated to the principles of individual liberty, limited government, free markets, and peace. Its scholars and analysts conduct independent, nonpartisan research on a wide range of policy issues.

I already proved that we cannpt trust Democrats who are known liars over this issue.Yet Ed continues to be fooled by them eventhough I aleeady proved they are liars when they say they are for border security. So Ed can ignore their lies but informed Americans know not to trust anything Democrats say when it comes to border security.When Democrats claim they are for border security and want to do something about it they are lying to the American people.They tell you what you want to hear but do not follow through on it.They have done this for years and years.They are being paid not to do it.They are playing Ed like a fiddle just like when they claim that cutting taxes is tax cuts for the rich,which is another lie Democrats have told election after election for years and years and Bernie Sanders proves they lied. Ed wants us to not remember how bad it was for us living through the failed Democrat policies of the past,yet we know Democrat policies DO NOT WORK,We lived through them.We have seen the best of what both parties have done when in power before President Trump and it is not good.America can do much better than what Democrats do when in power Donald Trump knows this,we know it and no amount of Trump bashing is going to cause us to want to go back to the failed Democrat policies of the past.

abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:26 pm I already proved that we cannpt trust Democrats who are known liars over this issue.

Let me kinda agree with a basic principle that ACB brings up here.
If someone has repeatedly been proven to be a serial pathological liar, it is foolish to trust what they (or their misinformation propaganda machine) has to say.

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:43 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:26 pm I already proved that we cannpt trust Democrats who are known liars over this issue.

Let me kinda agree with a basic principle that ACB brings up here.
If someone has repeatedly been proven to be a serial pathological liar, it is foolish to trust what they (or their misinformation propaganda machine) has to say.

Would that mean that ACB is hoist by his own petard?

abelcainsbrother wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:26 pmI already proved that we cannpt trust Democrats who are known liars over this issue.

No, Abe, you didn't prove anything. You asserted some stuff without evidence and ignored solid evidence to the contrary. If you want to be taken seriously then stop acting like a sock puppet. Read my responses, look at the evidence, do some research, post an honest refutation if you can, and admit that you were wrong if that's where the data leads you.