Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:40 am

Rick: Please don't ask him to do this. All the verses he's posted supposedly supporting the Gap theory, have already been refuted.

My point is, the key word - that all of those verses about the Trinity "CLEARLY" reveal - without any supposed revelations or reading it into the texts. NO, Abe, we know the verses you've used. But unless you have some that clearly reveal this, then that's my point - a massive amount of verses obvious in their support of a theological belief, though not actually using a word (Trinity) vs. ones you assert that have no reference whatsoever to GT.

If we can put all of them verses together and understand the trinity is true we can do it for the Gap theory too.As I've often said the bible is like a big jigsaw puzzle and the more pieces of the puzzle we have the more clearly we can see. Yet when I try to do the same thing with the Gap Theory ,using the bible the same way we do for the trinity in showing it to be revealed true suddenly we no longer think this way.I was not trying to derail this thread I just thought it was an interesting discussion and wanted to give a Gap Theory answer to consider. If I did like you want and gave all of the scriptures that reveal the Gap Theory like you did for the trinity it would derail this thread. I have no problem defending and teaching the Gap Theory from a biblical perspective but I'm not sure this is the thread to do it. Ask these questions in a Gap Theory thread,etc and I'll do my best to answer when I can.Also, I have only ever tried to use the bible to teach and defend the Gap Theory on here. I've never really got into scientific evidence for it being true and so I explained from a scientific perspective why the Gap Theory is true,this time. I have thought about getting into the scientific evidence the Gap Theory is true,but I have'nt that much.It has mostly been me just using the bible to defend it or teach it. The scientific evidence matters too just like with the other creation interpretations out there.

But what does it mean they understood the knowledge of Good and Evil? Did they not know what was good or bad? I mean if anything is the nakedness a symbol? We have found a few pre-modern humans with clothes on in their artwork.

UsagiTsukino wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:43 pm But what does it mean they understood the knowledge of Good and Evil? Did they not know what was good or bad?

If we take the term "knowledge of good and evil" at face value that is the way I understand it.

Whatever the knowledge of good and evil is, Adam and Eve did not have that knowledge until after they sinned.

I associate the "knowledge of good and evil" in Genesis 3 with two other passages.
James 4:17
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn’t do it, it is sin for them.

Romans 2:14-15
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.

The more I think the more I wonder. If Adam and eve were the only humans. How did the first murder actually commit a sin? I mean were they really the only ones?

UsagiTsukino wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:57 pm The more I think the more I wonder. If Adam and eve were the only humans. How did the first murder actually commit a sin? I mean were they really the only ones?

Genesis 4:16-17 brings up a few more questions:
- Who lived in the Land of Nod?
- Where did Cain's wife come from?
- Who did Cain build a city for?

Yea that's the weird part. Did Cain's wife come before him. Did Adam and Eve just had thousands of kids

UsagiTsukino wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:54 pm Yea that's the weird part. Did Cain's wife come before him. Did Adam and Eve just had thousands of kids

The Bible doesn't mention anything about Adam and Eve having any other children prior to Cain and Abel.
After Cain kills Abel, Genesis 4:25 says that God gave Adam and Eve another son (Seth) to replace Abel.

So there is no Scriptural evidence of Adam and Eve having any other children prior to Cain, Abel, and Seth.

Genesis 5:4 does indicate that Adam had other children AFTER Seth was born. But Scripture does not explain who lived in Nod, who Cain married, or who Cain thought would find him and kill him (Gen 4:14).

DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:46 am

UsagiTsukino wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:57 pm The more I think the more I wonder. If Adam and eve were the only humans. How did the first murder actually commit a sin? I mean were they really the only ones?

Genesis 4:16-17 brings up a few more questions:
- Who lived in the Land of Nod?
- Where did Cain's wife come from?
- Who did Cain build a city for?

I think the most likely answer is the same for all 3 questions: people who preexisted Adam, who weren’t from Adam’s genealogical line. Genesis deals with Adam’s genealogical line, because it’s the line from where Jesus of Nazareth came.

Usagi: The more I think the more I wonder. If Adam and eve were the only humans. How did the first murder actually commit a sin? I mean were they really the only ones?

Usagi, notice the Bible NOWHERE explicitly says Adam and Eve were the first humans.

Notice, in Genesis 1, God creates man - and there is no mention whatsoever about Adam or Eve:

26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

So, God first creates mankind. And only, subsequently, does He create Adam, and eventually, Eve. Tradition - and tradition ONLY - has glued together the two passages creating men (in Genesis 1 and 2) - asserting that the mankind God created in Genesis 1:27 was Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve, most importantly, are the first links in Luke's (3:23-38) recorded lineage between Adam and Christ. This lineage is Christ's lineage of mankind - His HUMAN family tree. Note the last words of Luke 38: "the son of Adam, the son of God." The entire point of Luke's passage is to isolate and note God's chosen family, from the rest of mankind.

So, if God first created mankind - but did so well before Adam - this would explain DB's questions one should be asking themself ("Who lived in the Land of Nod? Where did Cain's wife come from? Who did Cain build a city for?"). As there were almost certainly other humans already existing. This would also explain the widespread and commonly estimated archaeological dates given for humans and civilizations that have been found FAR outside of the ancient Mesopotamia location of Adam and Eve.

Genesis 5 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=ESV) gives us an ability to estimate the approximate time of Adam (about 4,000 BC) - with Noah's birth occurring approximately 1,059 years after the creation of Adam. So, while we don't know how much before Adam the first (anatomically modern) humans may have been created, we do know that the time of Adam had to have been FAR after dates commonly estimated for fossils and settlements of anatomically modern humans, which have been found far outside of the ancient Mesopotamian location for Adam and Even.

Wikipedia notes: "The oldest known evidence for anatomically modern humans (as of 2017) are fossils found at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco, dated about 300,000 years old. Anatomically modern human remains of eight individuals dated 300,000 years old, making them the oldest known remains categorized as "modern" (as of 2018)." Look at other dates and sites for modern humans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... ettlements. The only way I see these dates for modern humans possible is if either the dating methodologies are extremely flawed OR if mankind is far older than just Adam and Eve!

I get why some people think Adam and Eve were the first humans since we know God created them. One question reminds, since sin enter though them doesn't that mean all other humans around Adam and Eve were innocent or sinned has they did.

Chalookal: I get why some people think Adam and Eve were the first humans since we know God created them. One question reminds, since sin enter though them doesn't that mean all other humans around Adam and Eve were innocent or sinned as they did.

Welcome to the forum, Chalookal - glad to have you here!

Consider this post (viewtopic.php?p=247528#p247528). I would say that any humans pre-existing Adam and Eve most definitely sinned - HOWEVER, the question is, as they would not have yet had knowledge of good and evil (as Adam and Eve did, but only after sinning / The Fall), were they held accountable for it - per what the Apostle Paul says in Romans 5:13: "Sin is not imputed when there is no law." And the first command (or law) recorded to have been given by God to a human being was to Adam in Genesis 2:16-17: "16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[d] of it you shall surely die.” So, Adam and Eve, even before they had awareness of good and evil, 1) certainly had knowledge of a law / command that God had given them and 2) that they were clearly aware they were breaking specific law God had given them. And this was NOT a mere matter of sinning by eating some banned fruit! Note that what Adam and Eve were tempted to do was to ( A) not trust God by wrongly believing He was deceiving and withholding something good and desirable from them and B) to pursue their terribly evil desire, per the serpent's temptation, to have their eyes opened and thus to "be like God" and "knowing good and evil.”

Now, as to when any previously existing humans were held accountable for sin (per their knowledge of sin imparted to them by God's "law written upon their hearts"), I cannot say. I don't have this issue fully sorted out (how God may have dealt with any pre-Adamic men's sins), but I do personally believe, per the archaeological record) there almost certainly were many thousands of years of humans existing before the time of Adam and Eve - and FAR beyond the Ancient Mesopotamian region of the Garden of Eden). Many theologians have wrestled with this issue, with a variety of conflicting opinions.

Does that help? It's a fascinating question - but getting it correct isn't a salvation issue, as this would only apply to any ancient humans pre-existing Adam, and not to mankind today.

I think the most likely answer is the same for all 3 questions: people who preexisted Adam, who weren’t from Adam’s genealogical line. install vidmate get-mobdroapk.com