Evidence for God from Science

Fliegender wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:44 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:10 am

Fliegender wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:57 am This topic reminds me of Rick D. telling us that Covid vaccines were dangerous.

Show my quote where I said Covid vaccines are dangerous. And when you can’t produce the quote where I said Covid vaccines are dangerous, then I expect a retraction and apology.

There’s probably no place where you come out and actually say the vaccine is dangerous. You just deviously suggested there was a significant problem with the vaccines. You missed your calling! You could have been a great lia lawyer.

Mr Stew here doesn’t have your talent.

So in other words, you really don’t care to know what I actually said, and you’d rather keep accusing me of saying something that I never actually said. Got it.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:45 pm For a quick moment I'm going to try to give the benefit of the doubt regarding the motivations of those who perpetuate the flat earth lie.

I don't think anyone could possibly be persuaded by science alone that the earth is flat.
I think the real issue is that some people who revere Scripture become convinced (incorrectly) that the Bible teaches that the Earth is Flat.
And based on their (mis)understanding of what Scripture says, they embrace fallacious argumentation and conspiracy theories regarding what Science demonstrates about the shape of the earth.

So lets try to get to the real heart of the issue.
Does Scripture really claim that the earth is flat?
The short answer is ... No it doesn't

For longer, more detailed answers, here are some good Christian links that discuss this issue.
1. From Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry
What is the flat earth theory? Is it true and is it biblical?
https://carm.org/about-science/what-is- ... -biblical/

I will respond to you guys but just have other things on my plate at the moment.

But I started to with this link, but then I saw that it was one giant strawman and shows that DBowling as no clue what Christian flat earthers believe despite the fact that I have told him about the dome, yet he uses this link from the frikken Flat Earth Society which shows a flat earth in space!!! The Flat Earth Society is a lot of nonsense and is in no way Biblical, they think the earth is falling up and such nonsense, if you are going to try and refute the Biblical flat earth do not use the Flat Earth Society links. At least pretend you know what we are talking about with Biblical cosmology. You say flat earth is a lie yet you seem to know nothing about what we believe.

The Biblical model has the sun and moon in and orbit above the earth enclosed by a dome just as the Bible says, not out in endless space as the picture from your link shows.....

Answer me this DBowling, the Bible specifically says that the sun is on a circuit, and a circuit requires that you return to the place that you started, if the sun is shooting through endless space at 450,000 mph never to return to the place it started how does the sun complete a circuit, DBowling? Did the Bible get it wrong, or did the writers just not know what they were talking about, and so we must question what else the Bible got wrong.

Psalm 19:4-6 King James Version
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

This nonsense is not what Christian flat earthers believe, please stop creating strawmen. You clearly have no clue what Christian flat earthers believe but are SO convinced that it is false. You seem quite clueless as to what we believe, you want to debate then research it first.

This picture is not what we believe or what the Bible teaches in any way shape or form.

Stu,

Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted a link that shows what Christian flat earthers believe. That way we can see how your beliefs differ from the Flat Earth Society beliefs.

RickD wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:04 am Stu,

Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted a link that shows what Christian flat earthers believe. That way we can see how your beliefs differ from the Flat Earth Society beliefs.

Will do. And DB didn't mean to be so temperamental in my post but it annoys me when debating and am offered up Flat Earth Society nonsense as it just makes Biblical flat earth look bad.

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:47 am

RickD wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:04 am Stu,

Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted a link that shows what Christian flat earthers believe. That way we can see how your beliefs differ from the Flat Earth Society beliefs.

Will do. And DB didn't mean to be so temperamental in my post but it annoys me when debating and am offered up Flat Earth Society nonsense as it just makes Biblical flat earth look bad.

I really lol’d when I read this.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 pm

Fliegender wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:44 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:10 am

Fliegender wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:57 am This topic reminds me of Rick D. telling us that Covid vaccines were dangerous.

Show my quote where I said Covid vaccines are dangerous. And when you can’t produce the quote where I said Covid vaccines are dangerous, then I expect a retraction and apology.

There’s probably no place where you come out and actually say the vaccine is dangerous. You just deviously suggested there was a significant problem with the vaccines. You missed your calling! You could have been a great lia lawyer.

Mr Stew here doesn’t have your talent.

So in other words, you really don’t care to know what I actually said, and you’d rather keep accusing me of saying something that I never actually said. Got it.

You really should be a lawyer. You’re quite old but there’s still time to go to law school.

Why not up a new challenge? Defend the 6000 year-old earth or prove the Holocaust never happened. There are plenty of kooky ideas out there. Pick one.

RickD wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:54 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:47 am

RickD wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:04 am Stu,

Perhaps it would be helpful if you posted a link that shows what Christian flat earthers believe. That way we can see how your beliefs differ from the Flat Earth Society beliefs.

Will do. And DB didn't mean to be so temperamental in my post but it annoys me when debating and am offered up Flat Earth Society nonsense as it just makes Biblical flat earth look bad.

I really lol’d when I read this.

Haha yeah I thought I might get a response, hey I was trying to be nice to DB.
Buy Rick, aren't you an American it's 13:26 in SA at the moment what are you doing awake, do you have insomnia or something.

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 am [Answer me this DBowling, the Bible specifically says that the sun is on a circuit, and a circuit requires that you return to the place that you started, if the sun is shooting through endless space at 450,000 mph never to return to the place it started how does the sun complete a circuit, DBowling? Did the Bible get it wrong, or did the writers just not know what they were talking about, and so we must question what else the Bible got wrong.

Psalm 19:4-6 King James Version
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

In Psalm 19, David gets it absolutely right...
It is your "explanation" of how the term 'circuit' relates to the Scriptural text that is in error.

David is simply describing what we all see and experience every day.
From the perspective of any specific location on the earth, which David and all of us happen to live on, the sun does complete a circuit around the earth (which speaks yet again to the shape of the earth).

David is absolutely correct in his observation of the behavior of the sun in relation to any location on earth.
Your error is attempting to impose a perspective on David that has nothing at all to do with his perspective or experience.

The language and figurative imagery in this Psalm should make it abundantly clear that David is not writing a technical treatise on cosmology in this passage.

This nonsense is not what Christian flat earthers believe, please stop creating strawmen. You clearly have no clue what Christian flat earthers believe but are SO convinced that it is false.

It is a scientific fact that the earth is a globe.
There is abundant evidence available to anyone that the earth is a globe (including thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from multiple sources)
Flat earthers deny that the earth is a globe.
Therefore flat earthers are embracing and perpetuating a lie.
It's not any more complicated than that.

And associating the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel is harmful to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus.

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:55 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 am [Answer me this DBowling, the Bible specifically says that the sun is on a circuit, and a circuit requires that you return to the place that you started, if the sun is shooting through endless space at 450,000 mph never to return to the place it started how does the sun complete a circuit, DBowling? Did the Bible get it wrong, or did the writers just not know what they were talking about, and so we must question what else the Bible got wrong.

Psalm 19:4-6 King James Version
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

In Psalm 19, David gets it absolutely right...
It is your "explanation" of how the term 'circuit' relates to the Scriptural text that is in error.

David is simply describing what we all see and experience every day.
From the perspective of any specific location on the earth, which David and all of us happen to live on, the sun does complete a circuit around the earth (which speaks yet again to the shape of the earth).

David is absolutely correct in his observation of the behavior of the sun in relation to any location on earth.
Your error is attempting to impose a perspective on David that has nothing at all to do with his perspective or experience.

The language and figurative imagery in this Psalm should make it abundantly clear that David is not writing a technical treatise on cosmology in this passage.

This nonsense is not what Christian flat earthers believe, please stop creating strawmen. You clearly have no clue what Christian flat earthers believe but are SO convinced that it is false.

It is a scientific fact that the earth is a globe.
There is abundant evidence available to anyone that the earth is a globe (including thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from multiple sources)
Flat earthers deny that the earth is a globe.
Therefore flat earthers are embracing and perpetuating a lie.
It's not any more complicated than that.

And associating the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel is harmful to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus.

So far to explain away what the Bible says you have said that it is either metaphors or the writer got it wrong. Did the Holy Spirit not inspire those words or was it David's own pondering?

If so how can the Bible be good for teaching truth?

What then of 2 Timothy 3:16.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. Would He get it wrong so many times.

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:13 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:55 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 am [Answer me this DBowling, the Bible specifically says that the sun is on a circuit, and a circuit requires that you return to the place that you started, if the sun is shooting through endless space at 450,000 mph never to return to the place it started how does the sun complete a circuit, DBowling? Did the Bible get it wrong, or did the writers just not know what they were talking about, and so we must question what else the Bible got wrong.

Psalm 19:4-6 King James Version
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

In Psalm 19, David gets it absolutely right...
It is your "explanation" of how the term 'circuit' relates to the Scriptural text that is in error.

David is simply describing what we all see and experience every day.
From the perspective of any specific location on the earth, which David and all of us happen to live on, the sun does complete a circuit around the earth (which speaks yet again to the shape of the earth).

David is absolutely correct in his observation of the behavior of the sun in relation to any location on earth.
Your error is attempting to impose a perspective on David that has nothing at all to do with his perspective or experience.

The language and figurative imagery in this Psalm should make it abundantly clear that David is not writing a technical treatise on cosmology in this passage.

This nonsense is not what Christian flat earthers believe, please stop creating strawmen. You clearly have no clue what Christian flat earthers believe but are SO convinced that it is false.

It is a scientific fact that the earth is a globe.
There is abundant evidence available to anyone that the earth is a globe (including thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from multiple sources)
Flat earthers deny that the earth is a globe.
Therefore flat earthers are embracing and perpetuating a lie.
It's not any more complicated than that.

And associating the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel is harmful to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus.

So far to explain away what the Bible says you have said that it is either metaphors or the writer got it wrong. Did the Holy Spirit not inspire those words or was it David's own pondering?

Go back and look at what I said...
I said David got it right
You are the one who got it wrong.

David was inspired by the Holy Spirit
Your explanation of what David is saying is most definitely NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit!

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:19 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:13 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:55 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 am [Answer me this DBowling, the Bible specifically says that the sun is on a circuit, and a circuit requires that you return to the place that you started, if the sun is shooting through endless space at 450,000 mph never to return to the place it started how does the sun complete a circuit, DBowling? Did the Bible get it wrong, or did the writers just not know what they were talking about, and so we must question what else the Bible got wrong.

Psalm 19:4-6 King James Version
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

In Psalm 19, David gets it absolutely right...
It is your "explanation" of how the term 'circuit' relates to the Scriptural text that is in error.

David is simply describing what we all see and experience every day.
From the perspective of any specific location on the earth, which David and all of us happen to live on, the sun does complete a circuit around the earth (which speaks yet again to the shape of the earth).

David is absolutely correct in his observation of the behavior of the sun in relation to any location on earth.
Your error is attempting to impose a perspective on David that has nothing at all to do with his perspective or experience.

The language and figurative imagery in this Psalm should make it abundantly clear that David is not writing a technical treatise on cosmology in this passage.

This nonsense is not what Christian flat earthers believe, please stop creating strawmen. You clearly have no clue what Christian flat earthers believe but are SO convinced that it is false.

It is a scientific fact that the earth is a globe.
There is abundant evidence available to anyone that the earth is a globe (including thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from multiple sources)
Flat earthers deny that the earth is a globe.
Therefore flat earthers are embracing and perpetuating a lie.
It's not any more complicated than that.

And associating the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel is harmful to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus.

So far to explain away what the Bible says you have said that it is either metaphors or the writer got it wrong. Did the Holy Spirit not inspire those words or was it David's own pondering?

Go back and look at what I said...
I said David got it right
You are the one who got it wrong.

David was inspired by the Holy Spirit
Your explanation of what David is saying is most definitely NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit!

No the sun does not complete a circuit in the heliocentric model, it flies through space and the earth orbits it.
The same applies to Joshua, the Bible says the sun stopped, but again you worm your way out of that one and the Bible supposedly tells a white lie about our reality.

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:41 am

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:20 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:59 am
And One More Time...
If the earth is flat... how the sun could be high in the sky in Detroit at the same time it is midnight and totally dark in Perth?

You like pictures to prove a point. Ok then let's take these two NASA photos, do you understand that these are photos taken by NASA.

Yes

Do you see the problem with them???

I see that there is no problem

The one taken at 1,000,000 miles is larger than the one taken at 238,000 miles. Do you understand what that means???

Yes... it means that the photos have a different magnification

Look at the clouds, they are EXACTLY the same in the 1978 picture of earth as the 2017 picture of earth.

I agree those are the same picture
I have no reason to believe they are different pictures.

That said, there are thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from different satellites, spacecraft, space stations, countries, organizations, times, etc... that all consistently show that the earth is a globe. There is not a single photo or image from space that shows the earth is flat.
The evidence from thousands of photos and videos is indisputable evidence in and of itself that our planet is a globe... totally independent from all the other evidences that I have already pointed out.


And Yet Again...
If the earth is flat... how could the sun be high in the sky in Detroit at the same time it is midnight and totally dark in Perth?
Your 'map' still doesn't explain how it can be totally bright on one part of a flat surface and totally dark on another part of the same flat surface.

The camera they used was the EPIC 4MP with CCD sensor with an 11-inch telescopic lens.
Don't you really think that would be sufficient enough to zoom that far in from 1,000,000 miles away?

No those two pictures of earth are not the same picture, the blue of the ocean is different, only the clouds are the same.

Yet even after seeing that NASA outright LIES about the photographs they put out you still are willing to believe every photo they put out?? They faked those photos yet you don't even bat an eyelid. Amazing. They copy and pasted the clouds

This is approximately how a flat earth sun and moon work. On a circuit. But it's not exactly like this and they do differ in speed and catch up with one another.

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:52 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:19 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:13 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:55 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:46 am [Answer me this DBowling, the Bible specifically says that the sun is on a circuit, and a circuit requires that you return to the place that you started, if the sun is shooting through endless space at 450,000 mph never to return to the place it started how does the sun complete a circuit, DBowling? Did the Bible get it wrong, or did the writers just not know what they were talking about, and so we must question what else the Bible got wrong.

In Psalm 19, David gets it absolutely right...
It is your "explanation" of how the term 'circuit' relates to the Scriptural text that is in error.

David is simply describing what we all see and experience every day.
From the perspective of any specific location on the earth, which David and all of us happen to live on, the sun does complete a circuit around the earth (which speaks yet again to the shape of the earth).

David is absolutely correct in his observation of the behavior of the sun in relation to any location on earth.
Your error is attempting to impose a perspective on David that has nothing at all to do with his perspective or experience.

The language and figurative imagery in this Psalm should make it abundantly clear that David is not writing a technical treatise on cosmology in this passage.

This nonsense is not what Christian flat earthers believe, please stop creating strawmen. You clearly have no clue what Christian flat earthers believe but are SO convinced that it is false.

It is a scientific fact that the earth is a globe.
There is abundant evidence available to anyone that the earth is a globe (including thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from multiple sources)
Flat earthers deny that the earth is a globe.
Therefore flat earthers are embracing and perpetuating a lie.
It's not any more complicated than that.

And associating the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel is harmful to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus.

So far to explain away what the Bible says you have said that it is either metaphors or the writer got it wrong. Did the Holy Spirit not inspire those words or was it David's own pondering?

Go back and look at what I said...
I said David got it right
You are the one who got it wrong.

David was inspired by the Holy Spirit
Your explanation of what David is saying is most definitely NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit!

No the sun does not complete a circuit

Of course it does...

I see it happen every day.
It is true that the cause of the circuit that David and all of us witness every day is the earth rotating on its axis.

But David is absolutely correct. The sun completes a circuit every 24 hours.
I witness that circuit every day.
You witness that circuit every day.

David is speaking truth.
You on the other hand are not speaking truth
You are misrepresenting what David is saying to justify perpetuating a flat earth lie.

Tell me, back in 1960 the US APPARENTLY launched a Thor Delta Rocket with a balloon satellite, Echo One.

Now listen to this..... they supposedly sent it up to 1,000 miles so that it could do orbits of the earth. But the space station is only 265 miles high!

It supposedly remained up in space for 8 years!! Without any debris hitting it and bursting it despite the fact it was 100 feet in diameter, what are the chances of that. And then it magically came back into earths atmosphere intact and was captured by a plane!! Truly Hollywood stuff.

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:41 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:52 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:19 am

Stu wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:13 am

DBowling wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:55 am
In Psalm 19, David gets it absolutely right...
It is your "explanation" of how the term 'circuit' relates to the Scriptural text that is in error.

David is simply describing what we all see and experience every day.
From the perspective of any specific location on the earth, which David and all of us happen to live on, the sun does complete a circuit around the earth (which speaks yet again to the shape of the earth).

David is absolutely correct in his observation of the behavior of the sun in relation to any location on earth.
Your error is attempting to impose a perspective on David that has nothing at all to do with his perspective or experience.

The language and figurative imagery in this Psalm should make it abundantly clear that David is not writing a technical treatise on cosmology in this passage.


It is a scientific fact that the earth is a globe.
There is abundant evidence available to anyone that the earth is a globe (including thousands and thousands of pictures and videos from multiple sources)
Flat earthers deny that the earth is a globe.
Therefore flat earthers are embracing and perpetuating a lie.
It's not any more complicated than that.

And associating the flat earth lie with the truth of the Gospel is harmful to the spread of the Gospel of Jesus.

So far to explain away what the Bible says you have said that it is either metaphors or the writer got it wrong. Did the Holy Spirit not inspire those words or was it David's own pondering?

Go back and look at what I said...
I said David got it right
You are the one who got it wrong.

David was inspired by the Holy Spirit
Your explanation of what David is saying is most definitely NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit!

No the sun does not complete a circuit

Of course it does...

I see it happen every day.
It is true that the cause of the circuit that David and all of us witness every day is the earth rotating on its axis.

But David is absolutely correct. The sun completes a circuit every 24 hours.
I witness that circuit every day.
You witness that circuit every day.

David is speaking truth.
You on the other hand are not speaking truth
You are misrepresenting what David is saying to justify perpetuating a flat earth lie.

The sun is travelling through space at 450,000 mph and NEVER returns to the same spot ever, it is flying though endless space dragging along all the other "planets". It never completes a circuit. It is impossible for the sun to complete a circuit.

On the flat earth model however it does complete a circuit... isn't it amazing that every time the Bible supposedly speaks in metaphors or actually equals with what reality is it is on the flat earth model. Surprising that huh????