Evidence for God from Science

ochotseat wrote:Some liberal Christians feel that homosexuality isn't sinful, but to many moderate and conservative Christians, it's clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven after death. That's why they are urged to become straight. There are ministries who minister to people who struggle with homosexuality.

it's clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven after death.

Not true, to some extent. Jesus came to save the world from sin, anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, repents, and turns from their sinful ways shall be saved. However, Hebrews 10:26-27 states:

Hebrews 10:26-27 (New International Version)

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

This means, if the homosexual desires no change whatsoever, after receiving Christ, and continues in their sinful ways, a sacrifice no longer remains for them, and their fate is hell. This can be changed however IF the person repents and changes their ways such as trying to abstain from what they desire. Choosing to abstain shows God you want to live for Him and change and follow within His guidelines of the appropiate way to live life.

well said, brian. i'm proud of you!

in heaven: don't listen to ocho. too much of what he says has no basis in reality.

HelpMeGod wrote: Not true, to some extent. Jesus came to save the world from sin, anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, repents, and turns from their sinful ways shall be saved.

Looks like you missed this part of my post :
to many moderate and conservative Christians, it's clear that homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of heaven after death. That's why they are urged to become straight.

in heaven: don't listen to ocho. too much of what he says has no basis in reality.

This coming from someone who visits a shrink and adulates drugs and homosexuality?

homosexual unions are not the government's business.
the only drugs i advocate are weed and alcohol.

at least i don't get off on beating children, pillaging God's gifts, and suckin' up to the masses.

Ochotseat, as someone who appears so proud within their legalism, you must be quite the perfect person. And as someone who would therefore keep to Christ's commandment to love others, I do find the kindness and understanding expressed within your posts truely amazing

Scripture also reads in James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." I hope for your sake that you are able to keep all law 100% so will be judged as being without fault. As for the rest of us, our hope is being saved by asking for God's mercy. And so we ought to show the same mercy to others for as Scripture says "judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!" (v.13)

Kurieuo.

Prodigal Son wrote: homosexual unions are not the government's business.

Yes, they are. Morality is always legislated. You may want the United States to turn into a socialist state, but most Americans do not.

the only drugs i advocate are weed and alcohol.

And your daft support for drug legalization was discredited by my posts.

at least i don't get off on beating children, pillaging God's gifts, and suckin' up to the masses.

No, you seem to get off on attacking conservative bourgeois and aristocratic Americans who live decent, stable lives.

Kurieuo wrote:Ochotseat, as someone who appears so proud within their legalism, you must be quite the perfect person. And as someone who would therefore keep to Christ's commandment to love others, I do find the kindness and understanding expressed within your posts truely amazing .

As believers, we are ordered to be compassionate yet critical of perversity, which the Religious Left seems to tolerate more these days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01333.html

danger will robinson, danger! you are so funny, dude!

Prodigal Son wrote: danger will robinson, danger! you are so funny, dude!

Yawn.
The consensus here seems to be that homosexuality is a sin.

ochotseat wrote:As believers, we are ordered to be compassionate yet critical of perversity, which the Religious Left seems to tolerate more these days.

You're right, but I find it amazing many on the Pharisaic Right are so concerned about moral perfection, that compassion and understanding is anything but demonstrated. As Paul mentions, while Christians have a right to judge those within the Church who call themselves Christian, we have no business judging and condemning people outside (1 Corinthians 5:12) which is something reserved for God alone. Therefore we ought to tolerate those outside the Church, although we shouldn't stop trying to light up the truth to such people. Our main concern should be with Christ's two commandments to love God and others over that of moral perfection, and I believe criticising (or condemning) anyone and everyone who does wrong shows a lack of one's fulfilling these commandments. If we as Christians criticise and condemn, then Scripture seems quite clear we can expect the same from God. Which is why I say for your own sake that I hope you are morally perfect.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote: You're right, but I find it amazing many on the Pharisaic Right

We know where your stand by this statement.

are so concerned about moral perfection, that compassion and understanding is anything but demonstrated. As Paul mentions, while Christians have a right to judge those within the Church who call themselves Christian, we have no business judging and condemning people outside (1 Corinthians 5:12) which is something reserved for God alone. Therefore we ought to tolerate those outside the Church, although we shouldn't stop trying to light up the truth to such people. Our main concern should be with Christ's two commandments to love God and others over that of moral perfection, and I believe criticising (or condemning) anyone and everyone who does wrong shows a lack of one's fulfilling these commandments. If we as Christians criticise and condemn, then Scripture seems quite clear we can expect the same from God. Which is why I say for your own sake that I hope you are morally perfect.

Ok, but no one in the Religious Right has stated that he or she's perfect. What many conservatives like about the Christian Right is that it isn't bashful about saying what needs to be said. If there were no Christian Right, we would not have had the Christianization of Europe and many of its former colonies, the Crusades, televangelism, the Christian Coalition, tough laws, etc.

ochotseat wrote:

Kurieuo wrote: You're right, but I find it amazing many on the Pharisaic Right

We know where your stand by this statement.

Actually I've taken your many hinted accusations of my being "liberal" in the many threads you've replied to me in. So I figured why try to fight it? People will always label, but for the record I consider myself neither. If anything, I'd consider myself very much more in the conservative camp.

Kurieuo.

Kurieuo wrote: Actually I've taken your many hinted accusations of my being "liberal" in the many threads you've replied to me in. So I figured why try to fight it? People will always label, but for the record I consider myself neither. If anything, I'd consider myself very much more in the conservative camp.
.

Actually, Kur, I've talked about the Christian Left, but I don't think I've named you as one of them. A conservative in your country or Europe would probably be a moderate here. I don't see why you consider people like President Bush, Secretary of State Rice, Pat Robertson, or the Pope as Pharisees. Can you imagine what would happen without the Religious Right?

Prodigal Son wrote:homosexual unions are not the government's business.
the only drugs i advocate are weed and alcohol.

at least i don't get off on beating children, pillaging God's gifts, and suckin' up to the masses.

How can you advocate Weed. It messes with your Brain. It does not allow you to live your life According to God Either. If you want relaxation then go to a Steam Room or Hot Tub.

bizzt: i have good reasons backed by research. i mentioned them on the marijuana and prostitution thread. you know, alcohol messes up your brain, too, and it's legal. i've done worse things on alcohol than i ever did on weed. this thread is about homosexuality, though.

Prodigal Son wrote:bizzt: i have good reasons backed by research. i mentioned them on the marijuana and prostitution thread. you know, alcohol messes up your brain, too, and it's legal. i've done worse things on alcohol than i ever did on weed. this thread is about homosexuality, though.

Yes However Weed is a Relaxant. It also says in the Bible that if I as a Brother do something that turns you away from Christ that I should Stop. Weed is probably one of those things that would do that. Along with Alcohol.