Most of the articles in the "Homosexuality and the Bible" section are about Greek and Hebrew wording and cultural references, areas in which I have little knowledge.
However, I did see another article that looks like it was intended to make a case:
"A Letter To Christians Who Don't Like Us".
The Letter wrote:There are many Christians today who will try to take Jesus away from us.
(It still amazes me that we are talking about Christian people involved in this sort of stuff). So to all you Christians who don’t have room in your heart for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people…I will remind you of the story of the Pharisees…the upright religious leaders of the day:
“While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?” On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”- Matt 9:10-13
Oh and a reminder…we are all sinners. You and me.
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” - Romans 3:23
And remember Jesus’ woe to the Pharisees:
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” – Matthew 23:13
So because of people like this, we have seen countless GLBT people who once loved the Lord who now feel separated from God because of the voices drummed into their heads by “Christians". Christians who send the message of hate and hopelessness:
“God hates you. You are going to hell. You can’t be gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender AND Christian at the same time. You're an abomination to God.”etc.
Hmmm. A real sweet bunch of folks, huh?
By telling us that we are going to hell...you are saying more about yourself than about us.
No problem as yet. Seems to be speaking more to the homophobic crowd.
The Letter wrote:When Jesus was asked by a mob to condemn a woman caught in the very act of adultery (John 8: 3-11) Jesus said, "He who is without sin among you, may cast the first stone" and one by one...the men starting from the oldest...disappeared. So before you decide to cast the first stone at us....you better examine the lack of love in your heart. Some people will say that the story is about the adulteress. But the story is also about the judgmental majority who were ready to prove how she was such a sinful person and execute punishment on her. Sound familiar? Jesus showed that their sin of unforgiveness and lack of compassion was no different from her sin. Jesus did not condemn her.
Mostly right, although soon the letter implies that all pointing out of sin is judgmental. Stay tuned...
The Letter wrote:Ah...but you say" Yea, but see, Jesus told her '...From now on sin no more' and you GLBT people are still sinning."
Right, if properly understood! If someone is pointing this out so that they feel superior, they are sinning. But if they are simply trying to help their brother who is stumbling, they are not.
The Letter wrote:Now look at what you just did! The whole idea of "He who is without sin among you, may cast the first stone" is that Jesus is saying...STOP POINTING THE FINGER AT SOMEONE ELSE! And there you go pointing the finger AGAIN at us...after hearing this story!
Red herring. They do not address the "sin no more" part but rather change the subject. They also make a
hasty generalization that everyone who points this out is being judgmental. Some will point out the sins in contexts where they are honestly trying to improve spiritual walks rather than judging.
The authors of the article also seem to be pointing fingers at the reader of the article, judging him/her and "throwing stones"! (Though now I'm the one who is doing the finger pointing - don't you just love recursion!)
The Letter wrote:"Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." - Matthew 7:1-5
And what will happen when you take the log out of your own eye? You will see the humanity of all of us and realize that we are no different than you and that it isn't about trying to take specks out of each other's eyes...but about forgiveness, compassion and love for your brothers and sisters. You see our salvation is between us and God. Not us, God and you.
Their entire second paragraph is refuting the latter part of the Bible passage: "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly
to take the speck out of your brother's eye." In their second paragraph they attempt
to refute the claims of Jesus himself! They also attempt
to refute James 5:16, it seems. Way to interpret scripture!
They also exaggerate the meaning of "do not judge", as I will point out later.
The Letter wrote:Consider Jesus' parable of the landowner. Some laborers complained because the landowner treated all his workers equally by paying them all the same wage. (Matthew 20: 1-16). The landowner said to them..."Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous? Thus the last shall be first, and the first last."
And because of the silence of the church…we have suffered ridicule, condemnation and verbal and physical bashing. There are thousands who have committed suicide because of this message of hate and because of the fear of the church to stand up and say, “No…God hates no one. God loves everyone and the salvation of Jesus is open to all”. (John 3:16)
How is it that a Christian could tell someone that God hates them?
You may think God is backing you up…but He is not.
Of course. I don't complain when saved homosexuals receive an equal place in heaven. God is of course not backing up hate. But he does back up honest recognition of sin as sin.
The Letter wrote:We are here to say that Jesus is our King and Lord.
Now in the new millennium, I have come to believe that our presence has a purpose in God’s plan. We are the thorn in the church’s side. We are here to teach about Christ’s inclusive love that has no bounds.
Christ’s love and compassion is open to all, not just you and your friends.
In the past, the church has used the Bible to justify slaughtering Indians, Black slavery, keeping women from having basic rights, the persecution of the Jews, upholding racial segregation, pushing down Black rights, etc. It wasn’t until a new generation realized that their elders in fact committed sin by their lack of compassion and active persecution of their brothers and sisters in the name of Christ, did things change. No wonder the world is cold to Christianity.
It is Christians who have turned off the world to Christ.
And of course now they are trying to prevent us from having rights to live, love and even to worship the Lord. Basic human rights.
More sound reasoning. Unless they're trying to back up the "gay marriage" thing.
The Letter wrote: “We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.” – 1 John 4:19-21.
So I guess that means you HAVE TO love us just like we HAVE TO love you.
Naturally. We just don't have to love the sin that is actually harming our brother whether he realizes it or not.
The Letter wrote:You don’t think we are your brothers and sisters? Oh yes we are!
Ahhh, but you think we are not saved because we haven’t “changed our ways”…because we are still gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender.
OK…then you tell me how people are saved?
Bingo. Yep you win. By GRACE!
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast."– Ephesians 2: 8,9
By grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Not by works.
Do you hear that? Works cannot save us.
There is nothing humanly possible that I can do that will save me.
Only by the grace of Jesus Christ are any of us saved.
So, we are saved whether you like it or not.
I don't question that they are saved, and I am in fact happy that they are saved. I just don't like their inability to see their own sin that is harming them.
The Letter wrote:But you say…
“Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”- James 2:17
But our faith is alive. We follow the Lord’s great commandments that Jesus gave us.
“Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
- Matthew 22:36-40
Their faith isn't always dead, but it
is sick. This is just the "physics" of sin.
The Letter wrote:But you still think we are not saved because we are living in sin by still actively being gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender. We do not consider our orientation a sin. This is who we are. We do consider some things like promiscuity or being lustful a sin. But we are no more guilty of that than heterosexual Christians who battle those same issues. Everyone lives in sin and you and I are guilty... yet Christ has accepted us and is working with us on each of our issues through His grace and forgiveness...this is the message of the gospel:
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." - Romans 5:8
No, I didn't say they weren't saved. Nonetheless, there is
equivocation here, because they say that their orientation, defined as "who we are" is not a sin. This would seem to refer only to attractions, which aren't the sin part. However, the question was whether their active homosexuality was a sin. This is not addressed. The "But we are no more guilty..." sentence
begs the question due to this failure.
Yes, everyone lives in sin. Nonetheless, Christianity does
not teach that we should just accept our particular sins and keep on sinning. See 1 Corinthians 15:34 and Romans 6:1-2.
The Letter wrote:And we believe that though we are gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender, we are still called to a moral and ethical life of integrity. A life worthy of the name of Jesus Christ.
Yes. That's why a lifestyle change would help! I say this because a lifestyle change is what is best for them; it has no direct effect on me.
The Letter wrote:But many Christians think we are somehow more sinful than they are. On the "Sin Scale"...homosexuality somehow rates up there in the top ten "unpardonable sins", next to murder. (PS...all sin is pardonable: "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men: but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven."- Matthew 12:31.)
I never said it was unpardonable, just that it was sinful. So this isn't an attack on my position. Oh, and they try to refute Jesus again. The verse says "but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven". But we will forgive them this time, since Jesus wasn't talking about homosexuality here.
The Letter wrote:Perhaps your sin is the sin of thinking you are better than us. You better look at the Jesus parable of the Pharisee and the Publican."Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee, and the other a tax-gatherer. The Pharisee stood and was praying thus to himself, 'God, I thank Thee that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-gatherer. I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.' But the tax-gatherer, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!" I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled, but he who humbles himself shall be exalted."-Luke 18: 10-14
I pray that this is not the case with me. Nonetheless, this is sometimes a struggle for many people including myself. Nonetheless, rebuking sin != thinking you are better.
The Letter wrote:Yes, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. But He said much about people judging each other, thinking they are better than others and yes He was angry...but He was angry at the Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes..who did everything correctly, who lived perfect religious lives...but couldn't have love and compassion in their hearts for anyone but themselves.
The first sentence is an
appeal to ignorance. Just because Jesus didn't mention homosexuality doesn't mean that the Bible is silent in the topic. Though I did find out through a search that Jesus condemned theft when he recited part of the ten commandments, he doesn't condemn wife beating or incest. Just because Jesus didn't condemn something doesn't mean it is right.
The second part is talking about unrighteous judging. Oh, if you want proof that recognizing sin isn't always judging, see Jude 1:23 and 1 John 5:16. To classify all opposition to homosexuality as judging is to caricature scripture.
Therefore this paragraph provides no argument against condemning homosexual behavior, as long as it is done lovingly with the right motives.
The Letter wrote:"Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins." - 1 Peter 4:8
We are Christians who love our Lord Jesus Christ. We are your brothers and sisters.
In the words of Jesus…“for whoever is not against us is for us” - Mark 9:40
We’re all in it together.
Our mission is to spread the word of God to all. The message of love, compassion, forgiveness and salvation offered only through Jesus Christ to all people.
Right. They are brothers and sisters! That's why I find it frustrating if they don't let their own brothers and sisters help them with their walk. It
is possible to condemn sin with the right motives, for the purpose of building up the sinners rather than tearing them down. Just because some people don't do so doesn't mean it is impossible.
(End of paragraph by paragraph commentary on this letter.)
A conclusion I have come to: There are many false views of scripture and Christianity in this letter mixed with true ones. For instance, see James 5:16. Christians can and should talk to each other about sins. It is not a private matter, and it is not always judging to lovingly point out the sins of a brother. It is said that the easiest lie to fall for is the one closest to the truth. And that's what I see here.
I do have to question whether someone who can't interpret the "not judging" verse properly and who envisions a weak, almost useless fellowship among believers can really analyze the "clobber passages" properly.
Here's what I did see in your story, Shirtless. It looks like you came into Christianity with a false homophobic view. You saw the error in your ways and had legitimate feelings towards those who were oppressed. But those who believe that homosexuality isn't a sin at all took advantage of your feelings and manipulated you into trading one false view for another. I think God may be guiding you to understand the truth. It seems clear He has given you a heart for these people, and I hope you learn how to love them in the most godly way.
I encourage you to find someone with the proper background in Greek and Hebrew to look at the articles in the "Homosexuality and the Bible" section. You might even want to contact James Patrick Holding, who maintains the Tektonics website. His e-mail address is available from the tektonics.org homepage. He seems quite knowledgeable in the subject from his articles. He's probably busy but does take requests for things to analyze.
